Navigation system GLONASS presented at Siberian aerospace show (new GPS)

Itar-Tass ^ | 04.12.2004, 06.49

[asgardshill]

GLONASS = Russian GPS.

With the EU version of GPS also coming on line soon, its going to get crowded up there in low earth orbit.

[FreedomCalls]

GLONASS has been around for a long time. It may have even preceded GPS.

[r9etb]

With the EU version of GPS also coming on line soon, its going to get crowded up there in low earth orbit.

All up at MEO, actually. GPS orbits at ~20,200 km altitude.

GLONASS has actually been flying for a long time. The satellites tended to die pretty quickly. The Russians ended up running out of money about 6 years ago, and thus couldn't maintain their constellation by launching replacements.

GLONASS performance wasn't as good as GPS, but not all that bad.

Sounds like they may be gearing up to replenish and start again.

[tjg]

Why is the EU putting up GPS at all? They like wasting money on triple redundancy?

[July 4th]

GLONASS has been a decrepit version of GPS for 20+ years. It would be interesting if the Russians decided that the system had some real commercial value, since they'd be going head to head with the EU's Galileo.

[jb6]

I'm curious, is each device going to be calibrated to only one system's specific signals or will it beable to use all of them. Because, speaking from experience, depending on which shiete hole you are deployed to, getting a signal can be near impossible.

[asgardshill]

GLONASS has been around for a long time.

True. I remember hearing rumbles about it back in the early 80s.

Here's a good source of info about GLONASS and about the hardware required to bring it on line.

[asgardshill]

I'm curious, is each device going to be calibrated to only one system's specific signals or will it beable to use all of them.

I honestly don't know if there are receivers that can use both GPS and GLONASS. I believe GLONASS is a closed system, so it might not be possible unless you have the public key. I know my Magellan can receive only GPS (and it does a bang-up job for what I need it for).

[FreedomCalls]

Why is the EU putting up GPS at all?

They are afraid we will cut them off if needed during a military operation. They don't want to be left dangling. They also want to supply precision nav signals to coutries like Iran and North Korea so that their cruise missiles can accurately hit Washinton or New York in case we turn off GPS during a future conflict. More French perfidy.

[asgardshill]

Why is the EU putting up GPS at all?

From a military standpoint, it would make sense for the EU to build their own navigation satellite system. They might not trust the results from GPS and/or GLONASS, or are banking against one or both of those systems being incapacitated in a war.

[July 4th]

I would guess that dual format GPS/Galileo receivers would start to be produced once the EU's system is operational.

From what I've read, the EU wants their system to have broad commercial appeal - they want to snag a lot of GPS's market on receivers, so they will try to provide services that GPS does not, like location-specific weather or travel data.

As for deployment, God help us if a Marine in a $h!thole can get Galileo's signal, but can't get our own M-Code signal.

[FreedomCalls]

I honestly don't know if there are receivers that can use both GPS and GLONASS.

There are some very expensive specialized survey receivers that can receive either. But you have to choose one or the other at a time. There are no receivers that acquire satellites from both constellations and come up with a composite fix.

[July 4th]

They also want to supply precision nav signals to coutries like Iran and North Korea

Galileo can be turned off at our "request" as well.

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/index.html

[FreedomCalls]

From what I've read, the EU wants their system to have broad commercial appeal - they want to snag a lot of GPS's market on receivers, so they will try to provide services that GPS does not, like location-specific weather or travel data.

What do you want to bet that it will not be open? I'm guessing you will need a "smart card" with a paid-up subscription to access the signals or something along those lines.

[FreedomCalls]

Galileo can be turned off at our "request" as well.

That's good news. I still don't trust them though. I wonder if it will be an ultimatum-type request -- "Turn it off or we will 'turn it off' ourselves with an ASAT missile"?

[asgardshill]

I'd love to get my mitts on one of those (even if you could acquire only one constellation at a time).

[BladeLWS]

We can always blind there satellites if that happens. The technology sure exists for it, I have no doubt in my mind that certain satellites are waiting in orbit, with one mission only.

[July 4th]

What do you want to bet that it will not be open? I'm guessing you will need a "smart card" with a paid-up subscription to access the signals or something along those lines.

I bet you're right about that. But that's something that people would pay for if available in a handheld unit, and it's something that our system doesn't do. Although in the US, we have other alternatives already available, like great weather info from the data side of the satellite radio services.

[FreedomCalls]

My dream GPS receiver would overlay current NOAA weather radar over the map displayed on the screen. Maybe current traffic conditions too. Is that what they are planning?