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Breaking News: Russian Troops Intervening in Ukraine Elections
Private Email from Election Observer in Ukraine | 11/23/2004 | Bob Schaffer

Posted on 11/23/2004 4:38:52 PM PST by ModelBreaker

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To: GarySpFc
I find it hard to believe anyone could make such a stupid statement.

Methinks someone is losing it completely.

201 posted on 11/24/2004 2:53:21 PM PST by MarMema
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To: cornelis

I'm afraid I don't follow your post, but I am interested in understanding your points if you care to elaborate...


202 posted on 11/24/2004 3:04:53 PM PST by Agrarian
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To: TapTheSource; GarySpFc
Putin doesn't like me

[Soros] I'm in a trap. The people who will buy the shares will make an undoubted profit. But I have no other choice, since the value of the shares will keep falling. For me to sell the holding at its realistic price, the company needs to be privatized. But the state won't take any steps in that direction as long as I have any connection with it.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that Mr Putin doesn't like me and that he doesn't like the activities of our foundations, especially in Ukraine and Moldova, to say nothing of Georgia. That is the explanation for the campaign he has mounted on the occasion of my current visit.

Even so, I don't regard today's Russia as a repressive regime. Putin really is very popular. But the characteristic features of an open society are lacking in that country. There is no supremacy of the law. It is replaced by a dictatorship of the law, and there is no parliamentary opposition.

203 posted on 11/24/2004 3:52:39 PM PST by MarMema
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To: TapTheSource

Do you live in Minnesota?


204 posted on 11/24/2004 4:00:08 PM PST by MarMema
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To: ModelBreaker
Sorry - he may be an honest man at home - but who is paying his salary in the Ukraine? Does he speak Ukrainian and how did he learn of these planeloads of troops?

The media is not reporting troops sneaking in from Russia - they are reporting that the opposition is saying that - the good news reports do - the tabloids of course will just report the rumor as fact.

That is how meda can be manipulated by powerful advocacy forces. Saw them do the exact same thing over Bosnia and Kosovo and Kuwait (remember the baby incubator nonesense?).

205 posted on 11/24/2004 11:12:41 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro

the media is reporting russian troops and russian tanks going into ukraine.


206 posted on 11/24/2004 11:13:55 PM PST by KOZ. (Reducing liberalism from a threat to a mere nuisance. Just like prostitution.)
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To: KOZ.

Post the link - I call your bluff.


207 posted on 11/24/2004 11:20:16 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Agrarian

Perhaps I misunderstood yours. I merely point out that some forms of resistance may abet what you oppose. Is Anti-Soviet prejudice-mutating-into-anti-Orthodox-prejudice an example of that?


208 posted on 11/25/2004 10:11:54 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis
I believe that it is, given that:

1. Orthodox Christianity is transforming Russia, bringing her back to her Orthodox Christian roots, and that

2. Russia, long before being temporarily hijacked by communism for 8 decades, had been an implacable foe of Islamic expansionism, fighting to keep Islam in line along her lengthy borders for nearly a millenium.

By contrast, Western Europe has proven herself incapable either of preserving traditional Christianity in ANY form, and incapable of dealing with Islam, whether from afar (in the war on terror), or nearby (in their disastrous decision to side with Islam in the Balkans against Orthodox Christian Serbia), or within their own borders (dealing with out-of-control and increasingly aggressive Muslim immigrants.)

I believe that militant secularism and Islamic expansionism are the two biggest threats to the preservation of liberty and sanity here in the US.

Why any right-thinking person would reflexively believe that attempting to remake Ukraine into the image of France is somehow better for America than is allowing her to stay within the Russian general sphere of influence is beyond me.

I have no idea who "really" won the election in the Ukraine. But neither does anyone else on this board. Those who claim to know that the election was fixed are largely speaking out of their anti-Russian prejudices.

George Soros wouldn't have poured millions into the campaign of the opposition if he wasn't reasonably assured that it would further his overall strategy to secularize Eastern Europe into his leftist image.

America needs to stay out of this, just as staying out of the Balkans would have put us miles ahead in the war against Islamic expansionism and aggression.

209 posted on 11/26/2004 10:36:43 PM PST by Agrarian
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To: ModelBreaker

maybe the troops are there to "help recount the votes"


210 posted on 11/26/2004 10:41:05 PM PST by isom35
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To: Agrarian; TapTheSource; FairOpinion

Something to think about. I'll ping your informative response to the geopolitical spin sleuths.


211 posted on 11/27/2004 7:10:12 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis

This is old news and appears to be incorrect.

Here is the current news, Nov. 27 -- and Russian troops still aren't there.

Ukraine Parliament Calls Election Invalid
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=285916

"Ukraine's parliament on Saturday declared invalid the disputed presidential election that triggered a week of growing street protests and legal maneuvers, raising the possibility that a new vote could be held in this former Soviet republic.

The Unian news agency quoted Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko as saying Friday that Moscow regarded a potential revote favorably an apparent significant retreat from its earlier insistence that the Nov. 21 elections were fair and valid. "


212 posted on 11/27/2004 11:01:40 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Agrarian
"America needs to stay out of this, just as staying out of the Balkans would have put us miles ahead in the war against Islamic expansionism and aggression."

Mostly agree, but this might be one last time that Powell's kind of mediation (ONLY mediation) could put us in the right position.

That said, If good offices cannot relieve the situation, and I doubt they would succeed, we stand away and allow the locals to sort it out.

I also agree with the theory that Islam has bent it's pick in the former Soviet Union and given their own resources people will fight back. That in my mind goes to support the 'pro-Russian' side and not anyone associated with France et al.

And, yes, I did think the original sky-is-falling report was bunk.

213 posted on 11/27/2004 11:13:59 AM PST by norton
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To: FairOpinion

I meant to flag you to reply # 209.


214 posted on 11/27/2004 11:27:40 AM PST by cornelis
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