FBI seeks help in missing fuel tanker case

CNN ^ | Nov. 12, 2004 | CNN

[WFTR]

With a tanker that big, they wouldn't need a nuke or fancy chemical weapons. With that capacity, they could use something much more conventional and make a big hole in something. I don't think it would be at all hard to do.

Bill

[FairOpinion]

"I think the government should install some tracking devise on tanker trucks,"

"They spend all their time trying to rationalize why every automobile in the country has to have a black box, for our own safety of course, yet they ignore something like this."

===

Thanks for completing my thoughts.

For those who haven't heard and don't know what we are talking about, please read:


Privacy Experts Shun Black Boxes (electronic data recorders now mandatory in all cars)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1277390/posts


"Some safety and privacy experts are reacting with apprehension, others with all out condemnation over a recent ruling by the National Transportation Safety Board to require electronic data recorders or "black boxes" in all new cars manufactured in the United States.

[FairOpinion]

UK Terror Suspects Were Building Dirty Bomb - Time (Reuters)

October 3, 2004
http://news.orb6.com/stories/nm/20041003/security_britain_report_dc.php

" British terror suspects arrested in August were trying to construct a dirty bomb and planned to attack targets in London, including the Heathrow Express airport rail line, Time magazine reported.

Information from computer files seized with the group revealed plans for specific attacks in London including "blowing up high-rise buildings housing multinational companies" by driving bomb-laden cars into underground garages, Time said in a release on Sunday of material from its latest edition.

Other targets included the Heathrow Express, a rail line between the airport and London, and an unspecified synagogue. There were also plans for "hijacking a gasoline tanker and smashing it into a building."

[JusticeTalion]

I don't understand why they are so concerned. Using this type of tanker for anything remotely terroristic is nearly impossible. Think about the problems:

1. Gasoline? This tanker has a capacity of about 9,000 gallons but try buying that much gasoline on the black market without getting caught. Also trying to buy that much gas a tankful at a time and you die of old age before you fill it half way. Not to mention gasoline is notoriously hard to ignite. A lit cigarette can be dropped in a full bucket of gas and the cigarette will be snuffed out. A full tanker is very hard to ignite as well. Most tanker explosions are caused due to damage to the tanker and escaping liquid gasoline being allowed to vaporize. The explosion is directly proportional to the amount of vapor created not the amount of liquid present. You get a small explosion but a big fire as the liquid gas burns. Not great for terrorism.

2. Explosives or ANFO? Won't work. All liquid tankers have what are called baffles (steel plates with small holes in them except milk tankers for health reasons). They are divided into three (or more) sections. This is to prevent "surge" when a tanker accelerates or brakes. The liquid tends to want to rush backward or forward, repsectively and the baffles help limit that. Only one chamber is accessible, why do you need access to a chamber liquid flows to easily, and there is no way to hand fill these other chambers. One third of a tanker can be accomplished using a Ryder truck so why make the trouble for yourself? This brings us to another problem.

3. Something called the "Truck Route". Pesky little things but strictly enforced. Just about every city of any decent size has one and they, almost without fail, take you anywhere but high value targets. Suburban, congested and downtown areas are all usually off limits to a truck that big. Mostly due to size but also for the road surface. A tractor that size runs about 80,000 pounds loaded full, is 8" wide and 14" tall. They can do terrible damage to city rodways because they aren't built for the heavy traffic so trucks are diverted away. Kind of like a dinosaur in your downtown area is a dead giveaway something isn't right.

For hauling freight they rock. As a weapon they suck. Stick you finger straight up in the air. Now bend your finger so it points to halfway between 11 and 12 o'clock. That is the maximum rate for turns at anything but putt-putt speeds. After 15º there is no way to prevent a jack-knifed tractor and trailer. It is easily disabled by shooting the tires which makes it unstable. And forget the Hollywood truck crashes, chases, collisions. It is total bull. A modern tractor-trailer has a distinct advantage over a car but that's about it. Bridge abutments, concrete, walls, buses, etc. will bring it instantly to its knees. I can think of a whole lot better vehicles for terrorists attack and this is definitely not one of them.

I held a Class A license, with hazardous, tanker and school bus attachments and I drove tractor-trailer rigs in the USMC, MOS3531.

God bless our troops wherever they may be.

[WFTR]

They could do far worse with a tanker than crashing it into a building.

[Fee]

Terrorist like to use commercially available items to make weapons. A tanker loaded up with gasoline, mixed with detergent would make an excellent napalm bomb in a mall where the blast and burns would be horrendous on the victims. All of us should be concern.

[uncbob]

Well then the FBI should go on the MSM to sound the alert

[maine-iac7]

hink that they'll need to describe some distinguishing characteristics if they expect anybody to find it.

I suspicion it's appearance has been altered

[maine-iac7]

exactly - I'm sure they've been seriously searching - but if it's been stashed in a barn or warehouse somewhere - difficult...They try to keep things under wraps in order to keep the public from going off half-cocked when they can't do anything constructive ...anyway, they must be getting some other data that might connect with it - and it's serious enough to alert the public...

[maine-iac7]

Black Boxes

Hitler must be rolling in his grave at all the aids available today to keep a minute by minute record of our every move...He must be saying "Damn..."

[Joe Hadenuf]

Yep it sure does. Immigration reform at war time, no way. Monitoring our borders, what a wild notion. Run away gas trucker, heck not like it is a plane or anything.

I don't understand what the problem is, with thousands of trucks with unknown loads entering our country daily from the most corrupt nation on earth.

Be happy, have a beer.

[acapesket]

Having worked in chemical trucking for many years, even though I retired in 97 to be a full time Mom, I will tell you that this scares the living daylights out of me, mostly because loads on the East coast start in a certain newly Gay American State that is so freakin' corrupt and full of criminal aliens.
The best way to identify a gas hauler is by noting the construction of the tanker itself. Gas Haulers generally have a single tank with the noted "baffles" to keep the liquid from sloshing. Gasoline tankers are generally run by "tractors" that are independent and look for the most part, beat to smithereens. If the trucker works for a reputable company there will be a logo on the "rig" somewhere, a designation, a phone number, an "if I suck at driving, call this #" placard etc,.
A dedicated trucker takes care of his "rig" especially if he is O/O (owner Operated) Even if he works for a legit company, it's their reputation on the line and that tractor may be spattered, but it's clean otherwise and well cared for.

Does it have "compartments" IE, a vertical ladder running on the top the tank? How many valves are on the bottom of the Tanker? Do the valves match the number of "placards" The star shaped switch numbers that tell the LEO's what the tanker is running. That means do the placards on the back and side match the number of valves on the back and the sides of the tank?
Gasoline is "UN 1993".
The tractor trailer and a fully loaded tanker weigh 80k in lbs. You can tell if it's full by the way the driver accelerates, turns, stops and starts, all VERY slowly.
Drivers are to stay with their "loads" at all times although in reality they have a ton of paperwork to do with the "reciever".
If the "load" is left alone in an inner city area and there appears to be no possible recipient for that load I.e a gas station or oil heat vessel, a receipient tank in a home or building in the basement/ and or a company that would clearly be marked in anticipation of said materials, if there is no hose exiting the valve and no person attending, no visible safety force IE Cops or firefighters, Call 911 ASAP.
No placards, except when empty the trailer must run the bright red "DANGEROUS" placard due to fumes after offloading. Take that into consideration prior to tin foil panic.
Hope this helps.
If you see one in a tunnel or inner city underground AREA.
it AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE!

God bless you all, those in Law enforcement know all of this so don't panic!

[acapesket]

Having worked in chemical trucking for many years, even though I retired in 97 to be a full time Mom, I will tell you that this scares the living daylights out of me, mostly because loads on the East coast start in a certain newly Gay American State that is so freakin' corrupt and full of criminal aliens.
The best way to identify a gas hauler is by noting the construction of the tanker itself. Gas Haulers generally have a single tank with the noted "baffles" to keep the liquid from sloshing. Gasoline tankers are generally run by "tractors" that are independent and look for the most part, beat to smithereens. If the trucker works for a reputable company there will be a logo on the "rig" somewhere, a designation, a phone number, an "if I suck at driving, call this #" placard etc,.
A dedicated trucker takes care of his "rig" especially if he is O/O (owner Operated) Even if he works for a legit company, it's their reputation on the line and that tractor may be spattered, but it's clean otherwise and well cared for.

Does it have "compartments" IE, a vertical ladder running on the top the tank? How many valves are on the bottom of the Tanker? Do the valves match the number of "placards" The star shaped switch numbers that tell the LEO's what the tanker is running. That means do the placards on the back and side match the number of valves on the back and the sides of the tank?
Gasoline is "UN 1993".
The tractor trailer and a fully loaded tanker weigh 80k in lbs. You can tell if it's full by the way the driver accelerates, turns, stops and starts, all VERY slowly.
Drivers are to stay with their "loads" at all times although in reality they have a ton of paperwork to do with the "reciever".
If the "load" is left alone in an inner city area and there appears to be no possible recipient for that load I.e a gas station or oil heat vessel, a receipient tank in a home or building in the basement/ and or a company that would clearly be marked in anticipation of said materials, if there is no hose exiting the valve and no person attending, no visible safety force IE Cops or firefighters, Call 911 ASAP.
No placards, except when empty the trailer must run the bright red "DANGEROUS" placard due to fumes after offloading. Take that into consideration prior to tin foil panic.
Hope this helps.
If you see one in a tunnel or inner city underground AREA.
it AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE!

God bless you all, those in Law enforcement know all of this so don't panic!

[meatloaf]

Tankers have a problem that most of the public doesn't know about. The lines below the barrel hold quite a bit of fuel after the first stop. Obviously terrorists wouldn't have to be concerned about that. When something hits a tanker with fuel in the lines and causes rupture of the same you dump about a hundred gallons in one shot. Add a spark and you're good to go.

I imagine one of those filled with ammonium nitrate and the other additive to give a bit of an edge would do lots more damage than we saw in Oklahoma City. At one point the FBI was concerned about 20 or 40 tons of missing ammonium nitrate from a place in WV. That turned out to be a clerical error. You have to wonder about a place where it's conceivable that someone hauled off that much fertilizer unnoticed.

[marshmallow]

Stolen in April??

The time to sound the alarm is long since gone, boys. The horse has bolted.

Forget it. By now, this thing is either primed and ready to go Ka-boom or it's been stripped down, painted and resold in little pieces.

[GOPJ]

Aug 2005 bump

[cookcounty]

And bump again. Wonder how this turned out.