[VadeRetro]

Exactly. Which is why I'm a bit confused by the lashing out that occurs at ID theory. While many IDers are fiat creationists (myself included), ID itself does not directly discount evolution to various degrees--it simply addresses the issue of whether life is the result of a creator, whether we capitalize that title or not. (One could be an IDer and think we were created by Vulcans, as far as the theory itself is concerned.)

Overlooks that ID, like so much of creationism, is sniping at evolution without advancing a story of its own. Overlooks that so much of that sniping consists of mantras directly cribbed from creationism. Overlooks that the ID advocates below the level of Discovery Institute staffers are creationists pure and simple (no wordplay intended).

Creationism has studied from the political left and discovered the concept of "front movement." I can remember considering myself an environmentalist until the early 80s, about the time Greenpeace was calling for the unilateral disarmament of the west. It hit me then: these people are communists out to destroy traditional western society and masquerading as people caring about something else in order to do it.

I would have had to be dumb as a brick not to see the light when I did. I would say the same about anyone who doesn't realize that an ID advocate is a religiously motivated anti-science crusading witch doctor.

[Heartlander]

There is a reverse side to your argument… We know if someone believes any that an intelligent being (force, etc.) never intervened at anytime in the creation of the universe or mankind, - well… as us redneck, backwoodsy, gun-carryin’ , moral majority Christians say, ‘You might be an atheist.’