Posted on 10/15/2004 7:20:42 PM PDT by St. Johann Tetzel
I don't think it's heresy what he is doing. But he is sinning. Make sense?
If Kerry is now excommunicated, how will his excommunication be lifted? Where in the letter is this spelled out?
Dear sinkspur,
Although it is unofficial, it is also at the request of the Vatican. But that's a red herring.
If an abortionist commits the heinous crime of abortion, and he had been a baptized Catholic, he automatically incurs excommunication. It requires no official pronouncement from the Vatican for the excommunication to have happened.
No declaration is needed.
If one were to send a dubium to Rome and ask, "Is Dr. So-and-so, notorious abortionist, excommunicated," it is unlikely that Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger himself would respond and say, "Yes, of course he is excommunicated."
Why? Because it's clear, it's simple, and it's automatic. He'd send the dubium off to a trusted theologian, and say, "Here, this is relatively uncontroversial, low-level stuff. You write the answer. But remember, you're not the Curia, so your answer is unofficial."
And the theologian would reply as we've seen here.
No official pronouncement must be made in a case of automatic excommunication. As to the remedy, that's already in Canon Law - go talk to your bishop, repent, confess, be reconciled.
Now, as to recognizing that the automatic excommunication has taken place, certainly, one will expect Mr. Kerry to continue to lie about that, and his status as a Catholic.
But this is usually about as "official" as it gets with an automatic excommunication. It might eventually get kicked up a level or two, and an official pronouncement may eventually be made on it, or not.
But Canon Law operates here, without the need for any official pronouncement.
Mr. Kerry is an excommunicant.
Along with Chappaquiddick Ted, Olympia Snowe, Ahnold, George Pataki, and the rest of them.
sitetest
The theologian here, at the request of the Vatican, has
Now, I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade.
The president has never said whether or not he would do that. But we know from the people he's tried to appoint to the court he wants to.
I will not. I will defend the right of Roe v. Wade.
Sinky, you are referring to the external forum.
In the internal forum, the state of Mr. Kerry's affiliation (or rather, lack thereof) with our Church is quite clear. He holds heresies publicly, he is divorced and remarried outside the Church without the benefit of an annulment, and he takes communion with and worships with non-Catholics. He is clearly not a member of the Church in good standing so far as his outward actions reflect his internal disposition.
But wait. Has Kerry really ever said that he personally believes abortion is okay? It seems to me that he agrees with the teaching but won't impose it on others. I am not so sure he's a heretic. But he is a public sinner giving grave scandal to the church by advancing the cause of abortion and he is in material cooperation with evil.
What if Kerry made a campaign stop at an abortion clinic, and helped escort patients into the clinic?
Would that be sufficient?
Dear redville,
In the case of an automatic excommunication, no formal pronouncement is required. No canonical trial is required. No mention of it by the hierarchy at all is required. The excommunication operates automatically as spelled out in Canon Law.
An abortionist need not be formally excommunicated.
Neither does a public heretic.
No, I think that the Vatican has told us what it is wishes to be known, but in the way that it wishes for it to be known.
sitetest
Heresy. Excommunication. Will this be part of our public debate?
Of course. In the internal forum, Kerry's external and public positions are contrary to defined doctrine.
But, a public excommunication of a public official would not be announced by an O.D. canon lawyer in an "unofficial" letter.
Dear DestroytheDemocrats,
If you read the letter of the theologian, he makes clear that those who hold publicly that though abortion is wrong, it ought to nonetheless be legal, are also public heretics.
And excommunicants.
sitetest
Good. Got it.
Kerry is excommunicated in the internal forum.
The external forum, for a public official, is another matter entirely. Balesteri, the original petitioner, wants a formal public excommunication, which he is simply not going to get.
"Kerry is excommunicated in the internal forum."
Good.
"The external forum, for a public official, is another matter entirely. Balesteri, the original petitioner, wants a formal public excommunication, which he is simply not going to get."
Why does that matter?
Probably Rigali.
America hasn't had a Roman Catholic as President since JFK, so we haven't had to deal with a professed Roman Catholic as President pushing an agenda that is clearly contrary to Church teaching. The scenarios are mindboggling.
Don't be so quick to judge here.
Check out the links below.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.