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To: NCSteve

For not having a "dog" you sure do have a bite.

I pray an American - at least for now - doesn't become Pope.
The Bishops here are much too wishy washy.

And I really don't think you look into V2 very closely. Or you are Anti-catholic and just say what pops into your head.


19 posted on 10/12/2004 7:43:19 PM PDT by antisocialista (Illegitimus Non Carborundum.)
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To: antisocialista

NCSteve is not anti-Catholic ... I'd have smelled it long before now. I think he just accepted what he's heard in the general media about Vatican 2.

I know American Bishops I'd be happy to see as Pope ... Bishop Jugis here in Charlotte; Bishop Slattery or Archbishop Beltran in Oklahoma. However, none of them is a Cardinal, yet. Of those who are Cardinals, I can't think of one who's Popely.


20 posted on 10/13/2004 4:49:17 AM PDT by Tax-chick (If you stand very still, they may think you're a tree.)
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To: antisocialista; Tax-chick; Huber
I'm not sure what you would have read from my post that would make you think I am anti-Catholic. On the contrary, one of the things I said was that I hope Cardinal Biffi or one of his group becomes the next Pope.

That being said, the church bureaucracy is the most notable problem I have with the Catholic Church. I am well aware that Vatican 2 sought to alleviate some of that. However, I also feel that Vatican 2 was too much, too soon. From an outsiders point of view pre-Vatican 2, I saw a church organization with the most devoted and devout followers on Earth. Within a few short years of its acceptance and adoption, I saw that organization become almost apostate. My Catholic friends stopped observing Lent. They stopped going to confession. The church started to entertain all sorts of questionable and vaguely heretical ideas within its ranks. I have heard preists and Catholic theologians say that Satan is not real and that the gospels are largely allegorical with my own ears. In the last few years, I hear the church has essentially cut most of the nuns loose, telling them to go find jobs, turning over its schools to secular employment. American and some European priests are sanctioning homosexual unions without fear of excommunication. The Church has entered a huge debate over whether or not to offer communion to people who they would have excommunicated or at least declared as anathema fifty years ago.

I'm a cause and effect kind of guy. I see the Catholic Church from before Vatican 2, I see it after Vatican 2. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Admittedly, I am not conversant with the details of Vatican 2 and I know nothing of the Humanae Vitae, which I suppose some would blame for the decline of Catholicism rather than Vatican 2. But I do know that there is a movement within the church to slow or even stop the progress of Vatican 2 and from the outside, that seems to me to be a good thing. From what I read, Cardinal Biffi is the leading proponent of that movement and now Tax-chick has introduced me to Cardinal Arinze who also seems to work in the vein. I can say I admire both of these men a great deal and think either of them would make a fine Pope.
21 posted on 10/13/2004 5:36:19 AM PDT by NCSteve
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