JUDGING THE DEBATE: A WASTED NIGHT

New York Post ^ | 10/01/04 | JOHN PODHORETZ

[kattracks]

October 1, 2004 -- IT'S a mark of how high- toned last night's debate was that the only real howler came when John Kerry called the Moscow headquarters of the KGB "Treblinka," which was a Nazi concentration camp, rather than by its actual name, "Lubyanka."

Yes, it was exactly the sort of debate that warms the cockles of every pompous commentator's heart — you know, the sort of person who complains that politics has gotten just so terribly dirty.

The debate was high-minded.

The candidates discussed their differences.

They didn't take cheap shots at each other. Bush said, over and over again, that you need to be consistent and resolute as president. Kerry said, over and over again, that the Iraq war was a mistake but that since the mistake had been made, he had a plan to win it.

They tussled on the question of whether bilateral or multilateral talks are best for dealing with North Korea. They agreed on the role of the African Union in dealing with the problem in Darfur.

The president admired John Kerry's daughters. John Kerry admired the president's wife.

[snip]

Bush wanted to make clear that he intends to win the war in Iraq and that people think of him as a strong leader. He did so by contrasting his own consistency with John Kerry's vacillations — and he did it over and over again, until even his eyes seemed to glaze over from the repetitiveness.

[snip]

One more thing. John Kerry said, "They had to close down the subway in New York when the Republican Convention was there."

Um, no. They didn't.

[beaversmom]

ping

[goldstategop]

Boooooooooooooring. I know its a great Nytol for insomniacs. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

[oolatec]

Actually, Kerry said "Treblinka Square", which I believe the KGB office was underneat at the time...

[Republican Radio™]

Regarding the "Global Test," let's look at how North Korea scores on the "Global Test" that Kerry mentioned in tonight's presidential debate:

· Kerry has criticized Bush on the campaign and during tonight's debate for not giving the U.N. and multilateral diplomacy a chance in Iraq before committing to military action

· Kerry said during the debate that "nuclear proliferation" is the biggest threat to America and pointed to North Korea as the major malefactor in that threat

· Since it was discovered North Korea was attempting to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons in October 2002, Bush has used a multilateral diplomatic coalition of at least five nations (USA, China, Japan, South Korea, and Russia) to contain the potential North Korean nuclear threat

· During tonight's debate, Kerry told America that to end North Korea's nuclear proliferation, he would hold bilateral talks rather than using the leverage that China, South Korea, Japan, and Russia would bring to the negotiations

In other words, Kerry said that America should take a unilateral approach (REMEMBER: Democrats have apparently changed the definition of "bilateral" recently to "unilateral" in recent months. Taking a "bilateral" approach i.e. having the USA deal directly with threats, has been called "unilateral" by Kerry earlier this month when he said in a campaign speech that Bush "has chosen to move in a unilateral way" in the War on Terror) in dealing with North Korea. Kerry himself described North Korea and "the spread of nuclear weapons was the biggest threat facing the United States" in Thursday night's debate—so why is Kerry willing to squander the international goodwill created by the Bush Administration's diplomats between China, South Korea, Japan, and Russia and "go it alone" with North Korea?

Wait… Does this mean that Kerry doesn't think North Korea's nuclear weapons program passes the "Global Test" to have multilateral talks? Will Kerry squander all of the international goodwill America has built up between China, Russia, Japan, and South Korea if he becomes president in November?

We'll see who picks up on this tomorrow. If not, you can hear more about it on Republican Radio this Saturday!

[nutmeg]

bttt

[MHak]

Nope, check out:

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/treblinka.html


and also:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/russia/kgb/lubyanka.htm

[nimbysrule]

It was boring for anyone outside the punditry, wasn't it??? The dirty not-so-little secret is out!! I'm a lawyer and would love to hear a real no-holds-barred, knock-down drag out discussion of immigration policy and the candidate's respective philosophies on judicial activism and tyranny. Ain't gonna happen. I'll take just about any cheap-thrill opportunity to drool over the President. even when he isn't hitting on all cylinders, but will most likely pass the next debates -- I watched tonight because I went to a fun debate watching event.

[OKIEDOC]

I don't understand Bush not doing a better job of defending his position. God knows that Kerry gave him plenty of opportunities to blow him out of the water. He should have responded to Kerry when he said the first thing he would do was ax the bunker busting nuclear bombs. I thought Bush did lousy but after seeing the debate again I think Kerry did himself no favors. No matter how slick Kerry was and how badly he beat Bush with words, in truth they were just fancy words.

[Lancey Howard]

Kerry showed confidence in his positions while Bush seemed to say too many things in a tone of voice that silently stressed, "Why won't you BELIEVE me?" Bush sounded frustrated a few times, and Kerry never did, not once. That means Kerry controlled the tenor of the debate. He won on style points.

Kerry's substance, of course, was as vague and confused as ever but that doesn't count as much in these things.

[ScaniaBoy]

Oh no! There is no, hasn't been a Treblinka square next to the KGB HQ - Dzershinsky Sq. It was a true howler - soemthing the MSM would have hounded Bush for incessantly, but Botox man will get off without any point deductions.

[nimbysrule]

No, honey, Treblinka was a Nazi concentration camp, the KGB building was located in DZERZHINSKY square in Moscow, named for Felix Dzerzhinsky, founder of the original KGB entity, the Cheka, and a real, real BAD MoFo.

So much for our sophisticated internationalist Jean-Fraude Kerry

[PJBlogger]

Can't sleep?
Tighten up the drawstrings on your jammies and FREEP these polls:

++ ONLINE POLLS ++



Allentown PA Morning Call: http://www.mcall.com

American Research Group: http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/debatei

AOL News: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/elections/article.adp?id=200...

Asheville Citizen-Times: http://www.citizen-times.com (Right column)

BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3703756.stm

Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com (Look for "SURVEY: Who did better in the debate?")

CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/politics/main...

CNBC: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CNBCTV/Promos/P9595...

CNN: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004

Denver Channel: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

Hampton Roads: http://home.hamptonroads.com/poll/question.cfm?poll=338...

Houston Chronicle: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/politics/28241...

KATC3 Lafayette: http://www.katc.com

Kansas City Channel: http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

KDKA Pittsburgh: http://kdka.com/?can_view=275003241

KIRO7 Seattle: http://www.kirotv.com/index.html

KOTV Tulsa: http://www.kotv.com/main/home/main.asp (Right column "Hotbutton")

KSDK St. Louis: http://www.ksdk.com/includes/poll.aspx

KYW Philadephia: http://www.kyw.com

LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-na-debate1...

Milwaukee Channel: http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who won the Debate?")

Minnesota Star Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5008889.html

MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733

MSNBC Horserace: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6028629

Ms. Magazine: http://www.msmagazine.com/debate_poll.asp

My San Antonio: http://www.mysanantonio.com (Halfway down on left "Cast your vote")

NBC10 Philadelphia: http://www.nbc10.com/news/3692935/detail.html

NBC25 Hagerstown MD: http://nbc25.com/webpoll.asp

NBC4 Washington DC: http://www.nbc4.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who won the Debate?")

NBC5 Cincinnati: http://www.channelcincinnati.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

NBC5 Dallas-Fort Worth: http://www.nbc5i.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

NBC6 South Florida: http://www.nbc6.net/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

New Orleans Channel: http://www.theneworleanschannel.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

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Newsday: http://www.newsday.com (Look for "Poll: Rate the candidates")

NewsNet5 Cleveland: http://www.newsnet5.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

Orlando Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/elections/orl-bk-pr...

PBS: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2004/debates/ballot.htm...

Philly.com: http://www.nbc10.com/news/3692935/detail.html

Pittsburgh Channel: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/index.html

Rapid City Journal: http://www.rapidcityjournal.com (left column)

Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com (right column)

Tampa Bay 10 News: http://www.tampabays10.com

Time: http://www.time.com/time (Right side)

Wall St. Journal: http://discussions.wsj.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=wsjv...

WESH2 Orlando: http://www.wesh.com/politics/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

WFTV9 Orlando: http://www.wftv.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

WGAL Harrisburg PA: http://www.thewgalchannel.com/index.html (Look for "Survey: Who Won The Debate?")

WHOTV Des Moines: http://whotv.com (Left side of page)

Wilmington DE News Journal: http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal

Winston-Salem Journal: http://www.journalnow.com (Left column)

WRAL Raleigh-Durham: http://www.wral.com/index.html

WTRF West Virginia: http://www.wtrf.com

WXYZ Detroit: http://www.detnow.com/wxyz/poll/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_54286...

[California Patriot]

The best hope for this debate: That some of Kerry's stupider lines, like "global test" and his claim that America is a nuclear proliferator, will be used in very effective 30-second TV ads.

[EaglesUpForever]

"I'm not a compulsive liar, I went to Treblinka in my time machine..."

[My2Cents]

He won on style points.

This is a post-9/11 world. Style doesn't mean what it used to.

[Lancey Howard]

Bush needed to point his thumb at Kerry and say, "Do you believe this guy? I get briefings from the CIA, the Pentagon, and the Commanders on the ground every morning. while my opponent has been skipping intellligence briefings all year so he could campaign. And now he says he has all the answers? Gimme a break."

Instead, Bush chose to stay on the defensive. By staying on the defensive, he allowed Kerry to, again, control the tenor of the debate. Kerry came off looking more confident, and that plays well no matter how you cut it. Bush looked more like the challenger than the champion. I'm just glad he didn't get knocked out.

[GSWarrior]

I'd like to see Laura Bush and Mrs. Heinz-Kerry debate.

[FesterUSMC]

Here is a wesbite to Treblinka

Treblinka

1,700 stones set in concrete in a circle form a symbolic cemetery

Front of stone monument at Treblinka symbolic graveyard

Memorial stones of basalt recreate pits where bodies were burned

[ladyinred]

Kerry will shut down our nuclear weapon program. He is against bunker busting bombs! My God, this is insanity!