Posted on 09/28/2004 1:19:47 PM PDT by johnnyb325
The only good thing I can think of about socialized medicine is that no one has to worry about being bankrupted by medical bills. I read somewhere that 1/3 or all bankruptcies in this country are due to this reason. That's pretty persuasive for a lot of folks.
That so cute.... He thinks the government should be limited by the Constitution....
When one is unemployed, getting health care is one of the motivations to look for a job. Free health care would result in more unemployment and people staying on welfare longer, no?
Seatbelt/helmet laws originate from taxpayer liability with medical expenses associated with car/motorcycle crashes.
When taxpayers become liable for all of your medical expenses, all of your behavior, from the smallest to the largest detail will come under their control.
Maybe some people don't mind making a trade like that. But I do, and my freedom isn't theirs to spend. Not for "free" health insurance, not for anything. Case closed.
No, everybody will instead be bankrupted instead by excessive taxes.
No, everybody will instead be bankrupted instead by excessive taxes.
Bankrupt or dead which would you choose? I would choose to live! It might not easy rebuilding your life, but another house ,another car can be bought again. How many spare lives can you buy for yourself?
We can sit for hours and discuss what a right is, and whether people have a right to health care, or whether it's an entitlement. What really matters, though, is the fact that health care is a necessity, like food and water, things that give life. We do have a right to life, right?
Exactly. With socialized medicine we will see the rise of a whole host of atrocities. Not the least of which will be legalized euthanasia.
What good is being financially "solvent," if you have to wait six weeks to see your government-provided healtcare specialist, if medical licenses aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and if no pharmaceuticals exist to help cure your condition?
yes, of course but does that mean I should be able to go down to the local grocery store and get my food for free? how about free water?
Remember:"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away."
But look.
-Medicare for old people
-Medicaid for poor people
-all emergency room care is basically socialized, right? No one's ever "refused", whether or not they can pay or have insurance, right?
-Hospitals and doctors are so heavily regulated with government oversight to an extent that, it could be argued that they basically are a branch of government (you up on your HIPAA rules? if doctors "take Medicare patients" this obligates them to this, that and the other, doesn't it? what prices they may charge, etc?)
-HMOs... they were essentially created by the government were they not?
-And finally the insurance situation is largely government-caused. Why do we all have this funny idea that health insurance must be attached to our employer, in the first place? (You don't expect a "food-purchasing insurance plan" from your employer...) Why does health insurance cover even regular doctor visits as opposed to just catastrophic events (as, you would think, "insurance" exists for)? Because of a post-World War 2 policy of considering these "fringe benefits" as non-taxable income. In effect the government provides a subsidy to all employers to induce them to provide insurance, and then of course that immediately allows for all sorts of laws and regulations about what that insurance must be like. (Must cover birth control pills! etc)
This all may not add up to "Socialism" with a capital S of course but it does function as a kind of farmed-out, piecemeal socialism.
I'm hard pressed to identify very many actual free-market features of health care. I mean you get a job, sign up for HMO, pick your doctor (free market..I guess) from inside the "network" (not so free market), and from that point on all your visits, and what you pay for each cotton swab, are tightly controlled and rationed by actuaries. There's no "shopping around" or "bargain-hunting" here.
Given all this, to just say "we shouldn't move to Socialized medicine" isn't very helpful. A lot of lefties will argue that our system is already halfway there, but is very inefficient as a result - and they will have a point. Instead of hitching all their wagons to a "no" - "no socialism in health care" - I wish conservatives would adopt a more pro-active position, such as "we need to reform the health care system", similar to how they have positioned themselves on Social Security. "Reform" in this case would consist of some much needed free market fresh air, including:
-end to employer-based health insurance tax incentives
-aim in all things to alter the nature and understanding of "insurance" so that it is used only for catastrophic life events, not every single damn checkup, tube of toothpaste, etc.
-less regulation/control and more free market whereever feasible
I don't know. This may not be a political winner. The "Baby Boomers" are going to be an obstacle to any attempt at true free market reform of course, as they grow old and rely more and more on the government to subsidize their health care. But just saying "no socialism!" doesn't seem like much more of a political winner, and its effect is to freeze us at the amount of socialism we have, which, let's face it, is pretty damn much. With the result that as frustration grows with our current system's idiocies, a constituency builds more and more for a true nationalized health care system.
No doubt.
Avoiding this is a good argument for having insurance, insurance which is *true* catastrophic coverage ONLY. The whole point of insurance is to shield you from such an event. But we've got our insurance companies so occupied with paying for each and every doctor visit that I'm not surprised a person could have insurance but have to file for bankruptcy as well.
Well, ERs are "socialized" because they're free, or at least free to privileged classes.
But they have NO government budget or other reliable source of constant income, hence, hospitals can and do go out of business.
under socialism, they can't.
I have family in Europe, I'm well aware of its shortcomings. And they are well aware of the shortcomings of ours.
And here's the lefty's response: "That's so inefficient, and look at the tragedies that result (communities losing hospitals). Why not cushion things with a true, reliable, nationalized system?" Look how you've now portrayed the difference: under our system, hospitals "can go out of business", under socialism, they can't. Which do you think sounds better to the average joe? Who's going to say "yay, I want a system in which my local hospital can go under"?
Lefties are also big on reminding us that ERs are typically the most costly way to treat someone, and there would be an efficiency savings if the people most inclined to use ERs for small things (poor people) were instead included in some kind of umbrella nationalized system that encouraged/allowed them to make less-costly, regular checkup type visits.
And, call me crazy, but I think lefties are *right* about that. At least, I know of no decent counterargument.
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