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1 posted on 09/13/2004 10:11:18 PM PDT by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2

when I tutored latino children in computers in San Francisco Bay area,they could hardly read nor write neither english nor spanish- what a disaster of bilingual education.


2 posted on 09/13/2004 10:21:55 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (nope)
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To: JohnHuang2

Public education is a form of child abuse.


3 posted on 09/13/2004 11:11:08 PM PDT by ikka
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To: JohnHuang2

Statistics are easily found on the comparison of homeschooled children to public education children by going to the the Home School Legal Defense Association webiste.

www.hslda.com

I HAVE TO ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE MY EDUCATIONAL DOLLARS (through taxes), BUT I WON'T ALLOW THEM TO TAKE MY CHILDREN!!


5 posted on 09/13/2004 11:39:11 PM PDT by homeschooliscool
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To: JohnHuang2; netmilsmom
I have even heard rumors that there are reputed to be one or two authors, such as the suspiciously foreign-sounding Arturo Perez Reverte, who actually write in Spanish, if you can believe anything so outlandish.

LOL! The idea that foreigners might be literate ... without the NEA or anything ... I love Perez-Reverte's novels.

The author is dead-on. Homeschooling is far from perfect (including at my house), but one of the outstanding successes is that children learn to read, fluently and with comprehension. Reading just isn't hard. My 2-year-old son already knows all the letters and numbers, and is starting to learn phonics, purely from being in an environment with reading going on constantly.

9 posted on 09/14/2004 5:22:59 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Dick Cheney is MY dark, macho, paranoid Vice President!)
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To: JohnHuang2

2 points:

* LA illiteracy is as much an immigration problem as anything else.

* All kids learn better and more when parents are actively involved, no matter what the educational situation.

Homeschooling statistics "self select" for kids with involved parents, and so it is not statistically relevant to compare homeschooled kids with the general population of non-homeschooled kids. The act of homeschooling does not make any kid smarter in and of itself. The act of not Homeschooling doesn't hamstring any kid in and of itself.

There literally is no solution in LA.....if you apply stringent educational standards, you will fail vast numbers of hispanic kids. This is not a reason for not doing so, but speaks to the political reality. Parents want their kids to graduate from high school, regardless of whether they can read or not. The LAUSD is only too happy to oblige.


10 posted on 09/14/2004 5:33:33 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: JohnHuang2
The child in kindergarten is not yet reading, but he has learned his complete alphabet now. The homeschooled child, on the other hand, surprised me by reading at an error-free fifth-grade level on the San Diego Quick Assessment test. I verified his competence by asking him to read selections from C.S. Lewis' "Prince Caspian" to me, a book with which he was previously unfamiliar.

Do you get it yet? Government schools were designed to prevent learning.

The particular utopia American believers chose to bring to the schoolhouse was Prussian. The seed that became American schooling, twentieth-century style, was planted in 1806 when Napoleon’s amateur soldiers bested the professional soldiers of Prussia at the battle of Jena. When your business is renting soldiers and employing diplomatic extortion under threat of your soldiery, losing a battle like that is pretty serious. Something had to be done.

The most important immediate reaction to Jena was an immortal speech, the "Address to the German Nation" by the philosopher Fichte—one of the influential documents of modern history leading directly to the first workable compulsion schools in the West. Other times, other lands talked about schooling, but all failed to deliver. Simple forced training for brief intervals and for narrow purposes was the best that had ever been managed. This time would be different.

In no uncertain terms Fichte told Prussia the party was over. Children would have to be disciplined through a new form of universal conditioning. They could no longer be trusted to their parents. Look what Napoleon had done by banishing sentiment in the interests of nationalism. Through forced schooling, everyone would learn that "work makes free," and working for the State, even laying down one’s life to its commands, was the greatest freedom of all. Here in the genius of semantic redefinition1 lay the power to cloud men’s minds, a power later packaged and sold by public relations pioneers Edward Bernays and Ivy Lee in the seedtime of American forced schooling.

Prior to Fichte’s challenge any number of compulsion-school proclamations had rolled off printing presses here and there, including Martin Luther’s plan to tie church and state together this way and, of course, the "Old Deluder Satan" law of 1642 in Massachusetts and its 1645 extension. The problem was these earlier ventures were virtually unenforceable, roundly ignored by those who smelled mischief lurking behind fancy promises of free education. People who wanted their kids schooled had them schooled even then; people who didn’t didn’t. That was more or less true for most of us right into the twentieth century: as late as1920, only 32 percent of American kids went past elementary school. If that sounds impossible, consider the practice in Switzerland today where only 23 percent of the student population goes to high school, though Switzerland has the world’s highest per capita income in the world.

Prussia was prepared to use bayonets on its own people as readily as it wielded them against others, so it’s not all that surprising the human race got its first effective secular compulsion schooling out of Prussia in 1819, the same year Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein, set in the darkness of far-off Germany, was published in England. Schule came after more than a decade of deliberations, commissions, testimony, and debate. For a brief, hopeful moment, Humboldt’s brilliant arguments for a high-level no-holds-barred, free-swinging, universal, intellectual course of study for all, full of variety, free debate, rich experience, and personalized curricula almost won the day. What a different world we would have today if Humboldt had won the Prussian debate, but the forces backing Baron vom Stein won instead. And that has made all the difference.

The Prussian mind, which carried the day, held a clear idea of what centralized schooling should deliver: 1) Obedient soldiers to the army;2 2) Obedient workers for mines, factories, and farms; 3) Well-subordinated civil servants, trained in their function; 4) Well-subordinated clerks for industry; 5) Citizens who thought alike on most issues; 6) National uniformity in thought, word, and deed.

[Has it worked, I ask you?]

The area of individual volition for commoners was severely foreclosed by Prussian psychological training procedures drawn from the experience of animal husbandry and equestrian training, and also taken from past military experience. Much later, in our own time, the techniques of these assorted crafts and sullen arts became "discoveries" in the pedagogical pseudoscience of psychological behaviorism.

Prussian schools delivered everything they promised. Every important matter could now be confidently worked out in advance by leading families and institutional heads because well-schooled masses would concur with a minimum of opposition. This tightly schooled consensus in Prussia eventually combined the kaleidoscopic German principalities into a united Germany, after a thousand years as a nation in fragments. What a surprise the world would soon get from this successful experiment in national centralization! Under Prussian state socialism private industry surged, vaulting resource-poor Prussia up among world leaders. Military success remained Prussia’s touchstone. Even before the school law went into full effect as an enhancer of state priorities, the army corps under Blücher was the principal reason for Napoleon’s defeat at Waterloo, its superb discipline allowing for a surprisingly successful return to combat after what seemed to be a crushing defeat at the Little Corporal’s hands just days before.3 Unschooled, the Prussians were awesome; conditioned in the classroom promised to make them even more formidable.

The immense prestige earned from this triumph reverberated through an America not so lucky in its own recent fortunes of war, a country humiliated by a shabby showing against the British in the War of 1812. Even thirty years after Waterloo, so highly was Prussia regarded in America and Britain, the English-speaking adversaries selected the Prussian king to arbitrate our northwest border with Canada. Hence the Pennsylvania town "King of Prussia." Thirty-three years after Prussia made state schooling work, we borrowed the structure, style, and intention of those Germans for our own first compulsion schools.

Traditional American school purpose—piety, good manners, basic intellectual tools, self-reliance, etc.—was scrapped to make way for something different. Our historical destination of personal independence gave way slowly to Prussian-purpose schooling, not because the American way lost in any competition of ideas, but because for the new commercial and manufacturing hierarchs, such a course made better economic sense.

This private advance toward nationalized schooling in America was partially organized, although little has ever been written about it; Orestes Brownson’s journal identifies a covert national apparatus (to which Brownson briefly belonged) already in place in the decade after the War of 1812, one whose stated purpose was to "Germanize" America, beginning in those troubled neighborhoods where the urban poor huddled, and where disorganized new immigrants made easy targets, according to Brownson. Enmity on the part of old-stock middle-class and working-class populations toward newer immigrants gave these unfortunates no appeal against the school sentence to which Massachusetts assigned them. They were in for a complete makeover, like it or not.

Much of the story, as it was being written by 1844, lies just under the surface of Mann’s florid prose in his Seventh Annual Report to the Boston School Committee. On a visit to Prussia the year before, he had been much impressed (so he said) with the ease by which Prussian calculations could determine precisely how many thinkers, problem-solvers, and working stiffs the State would require over the coming decade, then how it offered the precise categories of training required to develop the percentages of human resource needed. All this was much fairer to Mann than England’s repulsive episcopal system—schooling based on social class; Prussia, he thought, was republican in the desirable, manly, Roman sense. Massachusetts must take the same direction.

The Underground History of American Education
John Taylor Gatto


12 posted on 09/14/2004 5:43:39 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: JohnHuang2

The Federal government needs to outlaw home schooling and add billions more to public education. That way, the kiddies will all be on the same level, dumb.


29 posted on 09/14/2004 6:16:39 AM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: JohnHuang2

I think Vox Day challeneged Al Franken to a fistfight, Fight Club rules. This was after Franken challenged a National Review editor.


36 posted on 09/14/2004 6:27:56 AM PDT by Hacksaw (190 lbs - Atkins goal)
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To: JohnHuang2

Part of the problem is that the spanish elite democrats adamantly demand English is not needed to unify the USA.

I submit they a tragically wrong. English and learning to speak english is something that must be learned and mastered by all immigrants.


37 posted on 09/14/2004 6:32:09 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! NOV 2, 2004 is VETERANS DAY! VOTE!)
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To: JohnHuang2

This probably happens all to often. The student prevailed, however.

http://www.educationnews.org/courts-pedagogic-asserting-the.htm


50 posted on 09/14/2004 7:14:24 AM PDT by ladylib
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To: JohnHuang2

bump for later


55 posted on 09/14/2004 10:17:30 AM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Judge Greer allows violations of Florida Statutes)
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