Posted on 09/11/2004 9:25:07 AM PDT by HighWheeler
In the CBS documents, I suspect the signatures are forgeries too. In the known versions, only the features of the capital K are studied because the variations are simple and easy to identify. Although other signature elements may have discrepancies or similarities, these were not studied.
Open a new window with this website, and compare the "K" in Killian for the known vs. the CBS versions:
(go down to the 13 images of known and suspect signatures of Jerry B. Killian)
In the known versions, I studied the capital K features because the variations are simple and easy to identify. The K appears to be made by first forming a V shape, which is a simple downstroke for the body of the K, sometimes looping slightly backwards at the bottom, then continuing an upstroke to form the upper arm. The lower arm was always a separate stroke.
Known authenticated versions:
- The upper arms are convex up or straight.
- Each has a forward-going hook (convex up) a the tip, which in most cases which complements the arch bow of the main upper arm.
- The lower arm attachment is predominantly orthogonal (90 degrees angle) to the top arm,
- The lower arm is attached at a mid-point of the upper arm, and only coincidently attached to the body of the K, if at all.
- the lower arm is created by a separate pen stroke
- the lower arm is a prominent element that the signer had pride in making.
The 3 CBS documents do not follow these patterns:
- The upper arm bow is convex down, a hammering discrepancy.
- The hook on the upper arm is backward, another discrepancy, but which also complements the discrepancy of the upper arm bow!
- The lower arm is a vestigial element, in all 3 versions, not showing the rich, bold, pride of the signer in the known authenticated versions.
- The lower arm appears to be made as a continuation of the upper arm, another strong discrepancy.
- The lower arm crosses behind the body of the K.
- The lower arm attaches to the bottom of the upper arm, not at a mid-point as is the case with the known signatures.
These discrepancies are interesting combined with the problems surrounding the technical merits of the document and the suspect provenance.
Thanks for the link, I was hoping that there would be some technical analysis of the signatures.
I would like to see what the paid experts think of the signatures.
Forged signature is worse for Rather of course, but even an "authentic" sig doesn't help him, as he has admitted he was working from copies, which could have easily had photoshopped authentic sigs.
You're welcome. Thanks for the thread.
The fact that they didn't copy a signature is interesting, but it does cement any accusations of forgery.
The creator of this document at least knew they had to create the signatures, but it looks like they failed. Signature forgery aught to get the forger a few years in the clink.
If the sig is authentic then it is a cut and paste copy and the original exists somewhere. Someone should find it and voila. The odds of two handwritten sigs being identical are infinitesimal.
No one in Rather's crowd has explained why they only had copies anyway, and why they were such bad ones. These papers (probably copied 15 times each from their appearance) are from a "personal file"? Yeah, right. Who amongst us has anything like that in a personal file, regardless of our careers?
Good point. The availability of an authentic Killian signature to the forger would be the same for virtually anyone else. Proving that the documents were forged would then be a cinch.
I think the Killian signature is a cut and paste copy
If these are copies, you can cut/paste any signatures.
If the sigs were cut-and-paste, they would be easily verified by simply layering over the original. If the forger could get originals, anyone could get them.
This looks like a simple, badly executed forgery. The forger used only the basic outline of the signatures, and didn't pay attention to the details. The devil is in the details.
bump
HAHAHAH! I like that superscript!
Dan is going down and is taking a few "experts" with him to the dustbin.
'If the sigs were cut-and-paste, they would be easily verified by simply layering over the original
....The devil is in the details."
Very true. Haven't thought of it but maybe neither did the forger. I think we're not dealing with an very bright forger here , are we?
I'm no expert, but in just eyeballing them I can see they don't match--
The real sigs he writes out his first name and middle initital in the memos he doesn't.
Also the slant is all wrong. in the real sig the letters are all heavily slated, not in the memos
the double ll-s in the real signature are all looped. in the memo they are not.
Even a layman can see this is not the same signature. Not even close.
bump
Killian's signature is very hard to duplicate, for several reasons. He spells out his entire name, and has a quilling art to the pen strokes. He also used a lot of loops and curls in his signature that are also difficult to re-master.
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