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Are the Killian Memos Fakes?
Powerline ^ | September 9, 2004 | Big Trunk at Powerline

Posted on 09/09/2004 6:42:06 AM PDT by Sue Bob

The Globe story is itself based on last night's 60 Minutes report: "New questions on Bush Guard duty." The online version of the 60 Minutes story has links to the memos. Killian died in 1984; CBS states that it "consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic." Reader Tom Mortensen writes:

Every single one of the memos to file regarding Bush's failure to attend a physical and meet other requirements is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman. In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing (especially in the military), and typewriters used mono-spaced fonts.

The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction high-end word processing systems from Xerox and Wang, and later of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's.

Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang and other systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used mono-spaced fonts. I doubt the TANG had typesetting or high-end 1st generation word processing systems.

I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively.

(Excerpt) Read more at powerlineblog.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2004; ang; awol; bush; cbs; killian
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Could this be true? Are there any people out there with this sort of expertise? This really should be investigated.
1 posted on 09/09/2004 6:42:07 AM PDT by Sue Bob
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To: Sue Bob

The IBM Executive typewriter, available at that time, created documents with proportional spacing. The military had lots and lots of them.

I know this, because about the time these memos were supposed to have been written, I used an IBM Executive to typeset the body text for a small magazine I published at the time.

This argument won't fly.


2 posted on 09/09/2004 6:45:18 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Sue Bob

Forward to Fox, Drudge, etc


3 posted on 09/09/2004 6:46:34 AM PDT by VRWCTexan (History has a long memory - but still repeats itself)
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To: MineralMan

The question is what type did KILLIAN use. Not you.


4 posted on 09/09/2004 6:49:19 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Sue Bob
Check this thread for more analysis on the memos.

THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating

5 posted on 09/09/2004 6:50:14 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Charter member of the VRWC - and proud of it.)
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To: MineralMan

Dead wrong.

The Air National Guard WAS NOT a magazine, and the ANG used a different "style" of printing and wording in the "real" documents.

Example: These "forgeries" use superscripts for the 111th designation, but the real documents just type "111th" in plain letters.

These are perfectly typed, but have no clerks initials, nor filing numbers. Military doesn't do that.

The "memo" format is different, too.

The signatures are redically different. See the other thread for more differences.

Such an expensive "typesetting quality" typewriters wasn't used by any other "real" documents from Bush's records. Even for promotion letters, and letters on the ANG letterhead.


6 posted on 09/09/2004 6:51:20 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Sue Bob
I have direct and specific experience.


I was a personnel clerk in the USAF reserve in 1972 stationed at Ellington AFB (same home base as Bush). We had "better" equipment than the TANG had. They usually got our hand-me-downs. We had 0 (zero) electric typewriters in the person el headquarters for the group.

I know this because I spent a good part of the day typing re-assignment orders.

All our typewriters were manual.

In addition, we never typed anything on plain paper stock. It was either on unit letterhead or standardized forms for orders.

You might also notice the use of a superscript (187th) on one of the docs. Even if they had an early Selectric typewriter, it is pretty unlikely they had a superscript capability.

This should be easy to check. If they are forgeries the paper and ink will not show the age it should (these docs would be over 30 years old). CBS says they had the handwriting analyzed but said nothing about the docs themselves.

And how about the person that typed the documents. I guarantee you nobody above the rank of sgt ever touched a typewriter keyboard. Surely someone is out there who held my equivelent position in the TANG can answer some of these questions.
7 posted on 09/09/2004 6:52:20 AM PDT by jhouston
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To: Sue Bob

It is absolutely true that in the '70s, very very few, if any, office memos were composed on systems that could print proportional fonts.

NBI made some of the first systems, but those were very rare and high-end. They were NOT used for routine correspondence. They were used for creating documentation of high-value systems, and other low-volume/high-value documents.

This looks like a very promising smoking gun.


8 posted on 09/09/2004 6:54:20 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
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To: jhouston

Bump.


9 posted on 09/09/2004 6:54:30 AM PDT by Stentor
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To: MineralMan

The military and most of the government did not allow the use of anything other than a mono-spaced font, typically courier, for official documents and memos. It was that way the whole 20 years I was in and probably still is. One of the reasons for the limitation was OCR.

Whether the documents are a forgery is a waste of time. Even if they are, the media wing of the DNC will never print one word of the truth - they can't. The unguided nature of man is self-destruction and the MSM is leading the way.


10 posted on 09/09/2004 6:55:41 AM PDT by UseYourHead (This November, remember who the terrorists are voting for.)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: jhouston

I have a question, is falsifing Gov docs (no matter how old)a crime?


12 posted on 09/09/2004 6:58:27 AM PDT by marty60
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To: marty60

Oh man, I smell a smoking gun...

From selectric.org, here is a list of fonts:

10 Pitch Type Styles: Advocate, Bookface Academic 72, Delegate, Orator, Courier 72, Pica 72, Prestige Pica 72

12 Pitch Type Styles: Adjutant, Artisan 12, Courier 12 Italic, Scribe, Prestige Elite, Courier 12, Elite 72, Letter Gothic

Special Typing Applications: Light Italic, Script, Printing ANSI-OCR, Symbol 10, 108 OCR, Manifold 72, Symbol 12

I will confirm if this is an exhaustive list.


13 posted on 09/09/2004 6:59:45 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
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To: Sue Bob
..here's a simple question no ones addressing,
..if these are real, where were they back in 2000 during the first assault on Bushs records? Do you think the current "kerry kommando's" have even the slightest idea of what their doing? And if they are indeed FAKE will CBS admit they were duped?

Doogle
14 posted on 09/09/2004 7:00:16 AM PDT by Doogle (8th AF..Ubon Thailand..408thMMS...."69"...Night Line Delivery,,Ammo Dump)
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To: marty60

No, the question is - Is it possible that Killian used a typewritter with proportional spacing? And the answer is yes, no matter how you try to justify your head buried in the sand with respect to this issue.


15 posted on 09/09/2004 7:00:25 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: marty60

The thing is 60 minutes claim they came from a personal file of the commander. So who knows what was in his personal file ... although it is interesting the use of proportional fonts.


16 posted on 09/09/2004 7:00:52 AM PDT by cohokie
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To: Sue Bob

Hey where is that Italian guy that the French government use to fake Niger documents????? Joe Wilson's buddy.


17 posted on 09/09/2004 7:00:54 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: marty60

not to democrats

Doogle


18 posted on 09/09/2004 7:01:25 AM PDT by Doogle (8th AF..Ubon Thailand..408thMMS...."69"...Night Line Delivery,,Ammo Dump)
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To: UseYourHead

Don't be so pessimistic. With the Internet there is a good chance the forger can be nailed.


19 posted on 09/09/2004 7:01:29 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
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To: Sue Bob

Without getting into the superscripting and font argument, didn't the WH acknowledge they were legit?


20 posted on 09/09/2004 7:03:28 AM PDT by creepycrawly
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