Posted on 08/18/2004 6:32:15 PM PDT by farmfriend
Murder charges include fetus
The case against Ruby Pena's boyfriend may test state's homicide definition.
By Christina Jewett -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PDT Wednesday, August 18, 2004
The Sacramento County District Attorney's Office is leveling double homicide charges against a man accused of killing his 16-year-old girlfriend and her 1-month-old fetus, potentially leaving a jury to define the age an unborn baby must reach to qualify as a victim of murder.
A 1994 state Supreme Court decision said a murdered fetus must be 7 to 8 weeks old for prosecutors to charge homicide on its behalf.
The case could add a twist to the 1970 state law that says killing a fetus with malice is murder but does not define a fetus. Nationwide, state laws vary so much that any fetus, those of a certain age or no fetus at all may be designated a homicide victim.
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
Prolife ping.
Sorry, but they won't. The Talmud says that a fetus less than 40 days old is not really a 'fetus', its just a lump of flesh.
("The Babylonian Talmud Yevamot 69b states that: "the embryo is considered to be mere water until the fortieth day." Afterwards, it is considered subhuman until it is born.
"Rashi, the great 12th century commentator on the Bible and Talmud, states clearly of the fetus 'lav nefesh hu--it is not a person.' The Talmud contains the expression 'ubar yerech imo--the fetus is as the thigh of its mother,' i.e., the fetus is deemed to be part and parcel of the pregnant woman's body." {from here.)
(Although a few folks might take offense to the idea the Talmud serves as the basis for abortion law in this nation, just read this, and consider what it means that 3 US Supreme Court Justices endorse it.)
I think murdering a woman, and an uborn baby of any age, is the murder of two people. Period.
The article doesn't say how old the boyfriend is. Depending on his age, he could also be prosecuted for statutory rape as the age of consent in California is 18 and the girl was 16.
I do not think that a peson who unknowingly kills a fetus while committing a murder should be eligible for the death penalty, but I would prosecute him for double murder, without the possibility of the death penalty.
Re: post#3. Is this true? I once was told, according to Jewish beliefs, the baby's shoulders have to be out in order for the baby to be "alive".
"Hope they win."
Me too. It's time the pro-abortionists admit to the reality that once a human egg is fertilized, it is genetically as much a human as it will ever be, if he/she lives to be a hundred and ten. Argumants to the contrary are fairy tales and nothing more.
Man chooses to kill fetus - MURDER
Women chooses to kill fetus - CHOICE
This my friends is insane.
There's a slight problem with a murder charge here against the unborn.
If he didn't know the girl was pregnant, it would be impossible to know that she was.
Therefore, if he killed her, not knowing she was pregnant, he could possibly only be charged with the manslaughter of the fetus.
mark
mark
Is that true?
The portion in italics in the last post of yours?
Is that the case?
There is a big difference between something about Jews, which I didn't, and saying something about the LAWS that affect AMERICANS.
What were talking about is what is used to justify the time of ensoulment, right? Not Jews, Arabs, or Laplanders.
There probably would be no proof whether she told him or not, unless he says he killed her because she was pregnant. But, according to the article, she may not have even known she was pregnant yet, and the age of the fetus is unknown.
Still, (from the article):
An April 5 California Supreme Court case said that a killer does not have to know a fetus existed to be prosecuted for its murder.
What if there's no fetus at all, and one person murders another person? No death penalty at all?
Explain to me how abortion on demand got to be the American Way (what legal traditions were referenced), just like in Soviet Russia (and look what happened to them). Explain to me how the future of Israel is more secure demographically if the Israeli gov't provides FREE abortions to female members of the IDF? Talk about setting a rotten-to-the-core example to the other democratic democracies!
Jewish law does not agree nor disgree entirely with current American law in all respects on abortion
You are legally correct in that statment - if you honor all the qualifiers. I'm legally correct in saying that the two are largely concordant ... and I don't believe it's 'just a coincidence', given the recent foundation of the National Institue of Judiac Law, and the role the US Supreme Court Justices had in endorsing it.
You know what is too much to hope for, I'm certain? That you would come out and state the Talmud is WRONG for saying what it does regarding babies inside a woman.
Heck, I can't even tell if you are pro-life, given your apologetic vociferousness regarding the Talmud.
Death penalty is usually not meted out for a single murder. It would have to be a murder with extenuating circumstances, such as in the Peterson case it was obvious 2 persons were being killed.
For a single murder, the sentences in many states cannot include the death penalty.
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