Posted on 08/15/2004 6:58:27 PM PDT by Pharmboy
Hence, my heartfelt recommendation to simply "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out".
From the Halls of Montezuma
To the Shores of Tripoli;
We will fight our country's battles
In the air, on land and sea;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;
We are proud to claim the title
of United States Marine.
Our flag's unfurled to every breeze
From dawn to setting sun;
We have fought in ev'ry clime and place
Where we could take a gun;
In the snow of far-off Northern lands
And in sunny tropic scenes;
You will find us always on the job--
The United States Marines.
Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve;
If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes;
They will find the streets are guarded
By United States Marines.
The muslims used their sea power to raid Italy, Spain and France taking up to a million slaves.
My point in posting this was to show the similarities in their motivations based on their religious doctrine. I agree with your solution also...
Also, regarding "an identified power to deal with," if this develops into a low-grade but recognized world war, we would seek to compel the then leaders of Iran and Saudi Arabia to guarantee the peace -- just as the Bey of Tripoli was the signer of the two Treaties of Peace and Amity that were signed to end the war against the Barbary Pirates.
Congressman Billybob
Latest column, "Says the Wuss: Ma, He's Touching Me"
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We can have that in our new PC and sensitive wars...
worldnetdaily, 4/27/04
U.S. WAR AGAINST TERRORISTS GOES BACK TO FOUNDING FATHERS - (WorldNetDaily.com, 4/27/04) Most Americans probably think the Islamic terrorists declared war on the United States Sept. 11, 2001. Actually, it started a long time before - right from the birth of the nation. In 1784, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin were commissioned by the first Congress to assemble in Paris to see about marketing US products in Europe. Jefferson quickly surmised that the biggest challenge facing US
merchant ships were those referred to euphemistically as "Barbary pirates." They weren't "pirates" at all, in the traditional sense, Jefferson noticed. They didn't drink and they really weren't out to strike it rich. Instead, their motivation was strictly religious. They bought and sold slaves, to be sure. They looted ships.
But they used their booty to buy guns, ships, cannon and ammunition. Like those we call "terrorists" today, they saw
themselves engaged in jihad and called themselves "mujahiddin."
Why did these 18th-century terrorists represent such a grave threat to US merchant ships? With Independence from Great Britain, the former
colonists lost the protection of the greatest navy in the world. The US had no navy - not a single warship. Jefferson inquired of his European hosts how they dealt with the problem. He was stunned to find out that France and England both paid tribute to the fiends - who would, in turn, use the money to expand their own armada, buy more weaponry, hijack more commercial ships,
enslave more innocent civilians and demand greater ransom. This didn't make sense to Jefferson. He recognized the purchase of peace from the Muslims only worked temporarily. They would always find an excuse to break an
agreement, blame the Europeans and demand higher tribute.
After three months researching the history of militant Islam, he came up with a very different policy to deal with the terrorists. But he didn't get to implement until years later. As the first secretary of state, Jefferson urged the building of a navy to rescue American hostages held in North Africa and to deter future attacks on US ships. In 1792, he commissioned John Paul Jones to go to Algiers under the guise of diplomatic negotiations, but with the real intent of sizing up a future target of a
naval attack.
Jefferson was ready to retire a year later when what could only be described as "America's first Sept. 11" happened. America was struck with its first mega-terror attack by jihadists. In the fall of 1793, the Algerians seized 11 US merchant ships and enslaved more than 100 Americans. When word of the attack reached New York, the stock market crashed. Voyages were canceled in every major port. Seamen were thrown out of work. Ship suppliers went out of business. What Sept. 11 did to the U.S. economy in 2001, the mass shipjacking of 1793 did to the fledgling US economy in that year.
Accordingly, it took the US Congress only four months to decide to build a fleet of warships. But even then, Congress didn't choose war, as Jefferson prescribed. Instead, while building what would become the US Navy, Congress sent diplomats to reason with the Algerians. The US ended up paying close to $1 million and giving the pasha of Algiers a new warship, "The Crescent," to win release of 85 surviving American hostages.
It wasn't until 1801, under the presidency of Jefferson, that the US engaged in what became a four-year war against Tripoli. And it wasn't until 1830, when France occupied Algiers, and later Tunisia and Morocco, that the terrorism on the high seas finally ended. France didn't leave North Africa until 1962 - and it quickly became a major base of terrorism once again.
What's the moral of the story? Appeasement never works. Jefferson saw it. Sept. 11 was hardly the beginning. The war in which we fight today
is the longest conflict in human history. It's time to learn from history, not repeat its mistakes.
Thansk, snope. I searched the term "Barbary" and came up with a goose egg.
I don't think they understand that.
Regardless, given the opportunity, we should continue to hand out taxpayer funded Ass-whoopins every time.
At the same time you have to remember that one of the very first nations to recognize the brand new USA at the time of the American Revolution was the Ottoman Empire.
The Middle East is not a monolith.
Some of them may end up with a dirty nightshirt and half ownership in a camel. Others may end up with an oil well and a multimillion dollar reward for bringing in Moqtada Al Sadr's head.
I agree that this is a perfectly legal and Constitutional approach to the problem, and I'm mystified why we haven't pursued it. However, one issue I do have with the concept of issuing letters of marque and reprisal is that many vessels operated by privateers in the 18th and 19th Centuries rivaled the best of the men-o-war operated by the governments in that era. Indeed, many privateer vessels were constructed in the same yards that produced the USS Constitution, USS Ranger, USS Kearsarge, and other US-flagged vessels of the era. Today, I doubt that a private entity could successfully construct and operate any vessel equivalent to an attack submarine, aircraft carrier, or any capital ship. The capital outlay would be just too much, and any President foolish enough to authorize the deployment of nuclear ordnance by any private entity would be quickly impeached and forced out of office.
I would envision 21st Century privateers to be small, land-based units. I think the era of the sea-based privateer is over.
Also, regarding "an identified power to deal with," if this develops into a low-grade but recognized world war, we would seek to compel the then leaders of Iran and Saudi Arabia to guarantee the peace -- just as the Bey of Tripoli was the signer of the two Treaties of Peace and Amity that were signed to end the war against the Barbary Pirates.
I would add one more caveat - sanction those leaders if insurgencies targeting Americans cropped up, and immediately unseat them from power if the insurgencies continued and/or if it could be proven that they were aiding and abetting them.
I cheated. I used google ;-)
Ya beat me to it.
Sorry, one correction to my last - the USS Kearsarge wasn't constructed until 1862. I thought it was a Revolutionary War-era vessel; I was wrong.
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