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Coal-to-liquid solution for energy woes
The StraitsTimes ^ | July 19, 2004 | David Dapice

Posted on 07/20/2004 9:27:15 AM PDT by Baby Bear

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We could have done this very thing in the US...we have more coal than anyone. The environmentalists have effectively blocked any knowledge of or attempts to use this technology. I think this option should be made known to the masses.
1 posted on 07/20/2004 9:27:16 AM PDT by Baby Bear
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To: Baby Bear

I prefer the Corn-to-Liquid solution.


2 posted on 07/20/2004 9:37:06 AM PDT by snopercod (I took a shot of dopamine and it turned me into a dope.)
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To: Baby Bear
What 'energy woes'?? We've got all the gasoline, natural gas, et. al. we want. Maybe not at a price we'd like, but then neither are porterhouse steaks, new cars, movie tickets, or veterinarian bills.
3 posted on 07/20/2004 9:41:00 AM PDT by yankeedame ("Born with the gift of laughter & a sense that the world was mad.")
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To: snopercod
I prefer the Corn-to-Liquid solution.

Moonshine??

4 posted on 07/20/2004 9:42:29 AM PDT by yankeedame ("Born with the gift of laughter & a sense that the world was mad.")
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To: Baby Bear

Since oil is a fungible good, if this process is as cheap as is claimed, we will benefit from it even if nobody in the US does a thing about it. Other countries that produce oil from coal will import less oil or be able to export more, lowering the price for us as their demand goes down. So, objections in the US really don't matter. The only question is cost, this process has a long and successful track record. I think it is very promising.


5 posted on 07/20/2004 9:45:27 AM PDT by KellyAdmirer
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To: yankeedame

Good Point. Is anyone out there working on a catfish/lobsterfication process?


6 posted on 07/20/2004 9:46:07 AM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (Proudly putting panties on liberals' heads since 1994.)
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To: Baby Bear

Fortunately, if China diminishes its oil imports, that decreases worldwide demand for oil and lowers our oil price anyway.


7 posted on 07/20/2004 9:46:10 AM PDT by SedVictaCatoni
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Baby Bear
In the late 70s coal gasification and liquefication plants were planned for North Dakota. One gasification plant was built. My nephew is a Chem Eng and has worked in Beulah North Dakot for over 10 years.

The plant is profitable and he is in charge of the secondary products that also result. Ammonia from the stack gas is sold to fertilizer plants and CO2 s piped to Canadian oil fields for secondary recovery of oil, (pump gas into ground pump oil out.)

10 posted on 07/20/2004 9:50:20 AM PDT by Young Werther
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To: Baby Bear
This is old technology. De-polymerization would be more cost effective, and can be used with other things like agricultural waste. The Ag. waste test plant can produce a barrel for $15 per barrel. Probably can do coal for much less.
11 posted on 07/20/2004 9:51:42 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: Baby Bear
willing to forego periods of very cheap oil for more security

Coal to oil is more expensive. Oil has been cheap. Peak Easy says we will not run out of oil but that it will get more expensive. 4X

All these alternatives are more expensive. It is too late.

12 posted on 07/20/2004 9:53:48 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: NaughtiusMaximus

I'm furiously working on a solution to convert ordinary river gravel into gold, through a process known as "alchemy".


13 posted on 07/20/2004 9:58:52 AM PDT by mallardx
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To: Baby Bear
I've been posting about this for awhile. Here's another source for such technologies.

TOPICS News/Current Events Click to Add Topic KEYWORDS CHINA ENERGY Click to Add Keyword ------------------------------------------------------------------------ China plant to convert coal to motor fuel United Press International | 6/19/2002 | Hil Anderson Posted on 6/19/02 9:42 PM Pacific by Jewels1091 LOS ANGELES, June 19 (UPI) -- China's long-standing interest in using its plentiful coal to offset limited petroleum supplies took a step forward this week with the signing of an agreement with an American company for the development of the world's first plant that will convert coal directly into gasoline and diesel fuel. Hydrocarbon Technologies, a Utah subsidiary of Headwaters Incorporated, announced that the $2 billion project with Shenhua Group, China's largest coal company, would eventually produce 50,000 barrels of clean-burning gasoline and diesel fuel per day. "We are excited about the many opportunities created by this landmark agreement with Shenhua Group because we believe direct conversion of coal to liquid fuels is one of the most significant coal innovations in the last 50 years," said Headwaters Chairman Kirk Benson. "The HTI Coal Process is being considered for multiple projects and our technology is in a good position to be selected." According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, China is both the largest producer and the largest consumer of coal in the world and has been grappling with an oversupply situation caused by world consumption "declining significantly" during the past several years. The Chinese government has addressed the oversupply issue, and the resulting softening of world prices, by closing mines and looking at power plant projects and export opportunities. "China has expressed a strong interest in coal liquefaction technology, and would like to see liquid fuels based on coal substitute for some of its petroleum demand for transportation," the EIA said in a research note. China, which is also a net oil importer, is currently the third-largest consumer of oil in the world and is expected to overtake No. 2 Japan in the coming decade with a projected demand of more than 10 million barrels of oil per day by 2020. The HTI process breaks coal down into small molecules that when enriched with hydrogen, form oil molecules that can be refined into diesel and gasoline fuel. The coal liquification project launched Wednesday will be built 80 miles south of Baotou in Inner Mongolia, close to Shenhua's reserves in the Shengdong Coalfield. The plant will require about 4,300 tons of coal per day when it begins production in 2005. Shenhua, which owns a 15-percent stake in the HTI liquification technology, plans to build two other similar plants in the area. In addition to this initial facility, Shenhua Group, a 15-percent owner of the technology, intends to construct three additional direct coal liquefaction plants in the Shengdong Coalfield of China, which spans Shaanxi Province and Inner Mongolia. HTI President Theo Lee said the project would provide a long-term revenue stream for the company, and would also pay dividends to the United States in the form of a new source of domestic oil. "Shenhua Group has exhibited foresight in utilizing China's vast coal resources to provide the country's future energy needs in an efficient and environmentally safe manner," said Lee. "In addition to providing an export opportunity for United States goods and services, the...HTI Coal Process will provide the United States with a commercially proven clean fuels technology that supports this country's drive toward energy independence."

If the Administration would just start talking up such technologies, OPEC will open the spigots just to try and defeat it.

14 posted on 07/20/2004 10:05:54 AM PDT by techcor
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To: snopercod

Corn-to-fuel sounds better, but it can't solve the problem. Yield of either biodiesel or ethanol is about 8 barrels per acre of irrigated land per crop year. This same number is also in the range of every other processable crop. Brazil is the major user of ethanol fuel, using sugar cane as the source for a shrinking 20% of their surface transportation. Fuel ethanol costs twice as much as gasoline there, and provides only 2/3 of the energy per tankful. It works better as a gasoline blend, but it tends to damage gaskets and other rubber parts.

But back to the US. Replacing just 20% of our crude oil consumption with ethanol would require NEW, IRRIGATED land equal to the total area of Texas plus Tennessee. No, you cannot have my front yard.


15 posted on 07/20/2004 10:10:47 AM PDT by MainFrame65
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To: Baby Bear
"But coal is a highly polluting fuel when burned directly and also emits a lot of global-warming carbon dioxide."

It's the impurities in the coal that cause the polution, not the coal itself. Coal can be cleaned up, but the more effort that is invested in cleaning it, the higher its cost and the less attractive it is as an energy source.

ANY carbon-based fuel produces carbon dioxide, even his own body.

This guy writes like a naive little 12 year-old. He uses all the PC cliches but has little or no knowlege of thermal processes.

16 posted on 07/20/2004 10:11:27 AM PDT by nightdriver
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To: D Rider
This is old technology.

I seem to remember that this was in my HS chem class 30 years ago. A local power plant used to use that technology years earlier.

17 posted on 07/20/2004 10:19:30 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: D Rider
Oops. Make that coal-gas.
18 posted on 07/20/2004 10:20:45 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: nightdriver

Simplistic explanation of CO2 production variations between coal and other hydrocarbons -
All hydrocarbon combustion processes react both carbon and hydrogen with O2 to generate energy.
The Carbon reaction creates CO2, the Hydrogen H2O (ideally).
But these fuels vary in their proportions of C and H

Coal - lots of C, little H, so plenty of CO2 per unit energy.
Natural Gas - little C, lots of H, so less CO2 per unit energy.

Liquid hydrocarbon fuels are in between.


19 posted on 07/20/2004 10:26:52 AM PDT by buwaya
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To: snopercod

My county of birth in NORTH CAROLINA did not raise corn but rather manufactured it


20 posted on 07/20/2004 10:37:36 AM PDT by y2k_free_radical (ESSE QUAM VIDERA-to be rather than to seem)
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