GOP has star-power dilemma: How will party use Schwarzenegger? [Kerry vs. Arnold?]

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | June 19, 2004 | Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

[RonDog]

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GOP has star-power dilemma
How will party use Schwarzenegger?
- Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer
Friday, June 18, 2004

With less than three months to go before the Republican National Convention in New York City, a prime-time cliffhanger is in the works over whether the Bush camp will use it or lose it -- the megawatt influence and star power of California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Among the most sensitive issues is whether Schwarzenegger, a GOP marquee name, will be given a prized prime-time speaking spot at the party's presidential convention August 30-Sept. 2 at Madison Square Garden.

On the pro side: As the party's star actor, Schwarzenegger would get worldwide attention, and -- to the delight of networks -- draw millions of potential viewers to the now scripted-for-television political convention.

On the con side: The White House worries about lavishing too much attention on one Republican elected official who has shown an uncanny ability to upstage the party's star, Bush himself. A prominent role for Schwarzenegger also could anger the Republican right wing, which opposes his social views on such issues as abortion and same-sex marriage.

Ken Mehlman, campaign manager for Bush-Cheney '04, in an interview with The Chronicle, made no commitment on the specific role the Bush team expects the California governor to play, saying only that Schwarzenegger "is one of the great leaders of our party.''

Asked about talk that the White House is worried Schwarzenegger might outshine Bush at the convention, Mehlman downplayed the matter, suggesting that Schwarzenegger is one of many stars in the GOP...

[Reagan Man]

Guess you conveniently forget the threads topic and subject matter. Your intentions were obvious.

[RGSpincich]

You spent all that time going back over my posts and couldn't come up with anything, huh? You and the snotnose ronnie seem to believe that you have this power to absoluetely know what Ronald Reagan was thinking and when he was thinking it.
Best of luck to you two in your delusions.

[Reagan Man]

>>>You spent all that time going back over my posts and couldn't come up with anything, huh?

I did nothing of the sort. First off, my reply was mainly aimed at points you brought up about Reagan. I closed with the obligatory mention of Arnold for reasons that are clear, if you comprehend the topic of the thread, the subject matter being discussed and the direction of the debate. Sorry you're having trouble keeping on top of things. Try and pay attention in the future.

[Tamzee]

The minute Arnold announced on Jay Leno that he was running for Govenor, his Hollywood persona took over. He immediately had more support then Tom McClintock.

So now you are into revisionist history? You pretend that McClintock had it in the bag by himself to start and Arnold ruined it for him. There was a long list of contenders for the GOP slot when Arnold announced he would run (Issa and Simon, just to mention a couple). The public had their opportunity just the year before to elect Simon over Davis who was already despised by a large chunk of California.... the voting public still chose Davis over a solid conservative.

When Arnold threw his hat in the ring all the others on the right dropped back and supported Arnold as the candidate most likely to win for the GOP... McClintock stayed in despite the desperate pleas of party members to drop out.

He was simply a hanger-on, a spoiler... one that the left propped up continuously through the campaign to draw support from Arnold. If the left had campaigned AGAINST McClintock rather than FOR him he would have been chop suey by the end.

[Tamzee]

I'm going to a Veterans for Bush rally in Balboa Park.

Sounds wonderful.... have a GREAT time :-)

[counterpunch]

I said American icon. Just like Ronald Reagan was before he became a Republican hero.
And in #67 you said, "Keep it in context. I said they are both American icons and Republican heroes."
Which is it?

It's both. Ronald Reagan was an American icon even back when he was still a Democrat. He certainly was no Republican hero then. And after become a hero to Republicans, he didn't cease being an icon. Unlike Reagan, Arnold has never been a Democrat. Being an American icon is cultural, being a hero to a party is political. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Oh - it's about "asses in seats"! Why didn't you say so? Hell, let's forget about politics then - why don't we have Jessica Simpson as the keynote speaker? She'll draw teenagers interest.

If Jessica Simpson was the Republican Governor of California then I'm sure she would be a keynote speaker at the convention. As it is now, she is not a current or former politician, or even a political entity. By the way, didn't Ronald Reagan speak at the Goldwater convention, before he was even in politics? Couldn't that be because he was an actor with a lot of draw? You seem to keep ignoring the fact that Arnold is the elected governor. Are you in denial over this?

The reality is, it's about reaching a happy medium by presenting charismatic people that will articulate the party's platform. Arnold, by his own admission, disagrees with the platform on many points.

You'll be hard pressed to find very many people who are lockstep with every point of the party platform. about half of all Republicans are pro-choice, just as about half of all Democrats are pro-life. Politics is not black and white, and no party is or should be monolithic. "Republican" is a party, an political support organization, not any specific ideology. We're talking about the Republican Convention, not the Conservative Jamboree.

Counterpunch-to-English Tranlation: I don't believe conservative values have any appeal, because they don't appeal to me.

It depends on what you consider "conservative values". There are a lot of positions that the religious fringe would consider to be "conservative values" that I don't appeal to me. Just as there are a lot of things that liberal Democrats try to claim are "conservative values" that don't appeal to me. I'm not a purist, and I have no interest in competing with you or anybody else for the gold medal on that. In a nation based on plurality and governmet for, by, and of the People, I see no nobility in extremist rule over the people from any side. I have a lot of personal views that I hold as my own which I would never try to impose on everyone else through government.

You have no idea of what California is like, living out there in Virginia. You may think you know, but its just a hollow stereotype. Everytime people like you try to send up some purist conservative, they lose here. I also don't think you know very much about Governor Schwarzenegger as a politician. I doubt very much that you watched him debate, or that you watched him speak, or saw a rally. I suspect all you know about him is the bile the McClintockista here spewed.

Californians don't care so much about advancing a conservative agenda at this point in time. We're more interested in stopping the bleeding and repairing some of the damage from the liberal agenda that was in full advance over the past several years instead.

It is clear to me that you are not interested in a serious discussion. Your intent primarily seems to be to troll and play a sophmoric, losing game of semantics.

[RonDog]

Great idea...should Kerry be holding a flip-flop in each hand?

I will trust in your artictic intuition. :o)

The alternative, however, might be to introduce some sort of a "FLIPPER, the DOLPHIN" image...

Here is a picture from John F'n Kerry's PREVIOUS visit to Los Angeles:

After-action report: FReepers, "Flipper" - and "Flip Flop" Kerry in East Los Angeles (5/5)
Posted on 05/05/2004 5:13:09 PM PDT by markv840

Kerry event FReeped today outside Woodrow Wilson High School in East LA

First of all let me say thank you to all those who were present today for the FReeping; We did a GREAT job, considering we didn't have much time to prepare, and that today is a weekday. I must say, I was somewhat disapointed that "Mr. Kerry" didn't get to see us, but as I'm sure, RonDog, and other FReepers present will tell you, we still got noticed by everyone else.

The highlight of the FReeping was of course "FLIPPER" (the dolphin); This guy stood there in a dolphin suit for some two hours, and let me tell you, IT WAS VERY HOT, that poor guy... RonDog also had the GREAT idea of bringing some "flipper" balloons which got a lot of attention. We had a lot of home made signs, and a few Bush/Cheney signs and stickers provided by Mr.Oscar Gutierrez, who also did a great job talking to some of the media people who were present. The flip-flops were EVERYWHERE, From a Flip-Flop shaped sign, to a bag full of flip-flops for everyone on the back.

Nonsurprisingly, there was some people who were really angry about us "ruining their party", there was some yelling, and more middle fingers than I could count; at the same time, there were some who waved and honked horns, I never get tired of this.

GREAT JOB FReepers!!

P.S.: I will try to get you guys some pictures before the end of the day...

-- snip --

Note the "FLIPPER" costume, and the helium-filled "DOLPHIN" balloons (from Party City)...

...plus the LARGE BLOCK LETTERS on the signs.

CLICK HERE for the rest of that thread

[Reagan Man]

>>>You pretend that McClintock had it in the bag by himself to start and Arnold ruined it for him.

LOL What bull! Never said anything of the sort. I don't engage in pretentious behavior or revisionism either. That is your strong suit. You still claim that GovRino is a political conservative, even after you've been given endless examples of his political liberalism. Now you're blaming me for something I never said, while you resort to an argumentative posture in the hopes of convincing yourself, you were right. Sorry, you came up short again. You lost the debate again.

In true Hollywood fashion, Arnold stepped into the recall campaign. The fact that Issa, Simon and others may have pulled out, was of no consequence to McClintock's candidacy. McClintock wasn't a spoiler. He represented political conservatism and remains a loyal Republican. See jimrob's remarks I posted at RE:#106 on this thread. If I'm not mistaken, Arnold even highlighted a recent fund raiser for McClintock's reelection effort. So there's no hard feelings between McClintock and the Governor.

[RonDog]

Ooops!

"artictic" intuition SHOULD HAVE BEEN "artistic" intuition...

[NittanyLion]

It's both.

So you've now contradicted yourself for a second time on the same thread. Flip. Flop. Flip...care to go for a third time?

By the way, didn't Ronald Reagan speak at the Goldwater convention, before he was even in politics? Couldn't that be because he was an actor with a lot of draw?

Could be, but isn't. Reagan was there because he was a conservative who supported the GOP platform.

You seem to keep ignoring the fact that Arnold is the elected governor. Are you in denial over this?

I'm not ignoring it at all. Indeed I've addressed it a number of times on this very thread; perhaps you should go back and read more carefully. But just because Californians like yourself appreciate Arnold's social liberalism, don't try to foist it on the rest of the GOP.

You'll be hard pressed to find very many people who are lockstep with every point of the party platform. about half of all Republicans are pro-choice, just as about half of all Democrats are pro-life. Politics is not black and white, and no party is or should be monolithic.

Feel free to provide a cite. Here's one I found with a quick google search, and it certainly doesn't agree with your assertion that as many Republicans as Democrats are pro-life.

"Republican" is a party, an political support organization, not any specific ideology.

Nice rhetoric, but actions speak louder than words. Particularly your actions back in Post # 26, where you said, "For all of you knuckle-dragging paleocons who are unhappy with our party's stars - Bush, Schwarzenegger, and Guiliani - I understand Pat Buchanan is looking for new members for the Reform party." You can try to trot out the Big Tent philosophy, but it'd be far more convincing if you actually lived by it yourself.

It is clear to me that you are not interested in a serious discussion. Your intent primarily seems to be to troll and play a sophmoric, losing game of semantics.

Counterpunch-to-English Translation II: I'm getting waxed, maybe if I resort to cheap insults he'll reply in kind and stop concentrating on those stubborn facts.

[counterpunch]

So you've now contradicted yourself for a second time on the same thread. Flip. Flop. Flip...care to go for a third time?
You've failed to prove a contradiction. Just saying it doesn't make it so. Try moving away from semantics and back up your next statement with facts.

Could be, but isn't. Reagan was there because he was a conservative who supported the GOP platform.
Really..? So what time will you be speaking at the convention?

But just because Californians like yourself appreciate Arnold's social liberalism, don't try to foist it on the rest of the GOP.

And just because you're a hard-headed social warrior hellbent on defeat, don't bring down the rest of the GOP with you.

Feel free to provide a cite. Here's one I found with a quick google search, and it certainly doesn't agree with your assertion that as many Republicans as Democrats are pro-life.

Opinion dynamics polling agrees with me. Nice that you found a blog to back you up, though.

Nice rhetoric, but actions speak louder than words. Particularly your actions back in Post # 26, where you said, "For all of you knuckle-dragging paleocons who are unhappy with our party's stars - Bush, Schwarzenegger, and Guiliani - I understand Pat Buchanan is looking for new members for the Reform party." You can try to trot out the Big Tent philosophy, but it'd be far more convincing if you actually lived by it yourself.

I'm not the one trying to pass down judgement on high about who is worthy of the Republican moniker. That would be you, and a few others here. I only gave the advice that if you don't like where the party is heading, you might want to look into another party that better fits your views. It's just a suggestion, and it's your choice to make. I just think you might be happy in the party of Pat Buchanan than the party of Arnold Schwarzenegger, based on your own statements.

Counterpunch-to-English Translation II: I'm getting waxed, maybe if I resort to cheap insults he'll reply in kind and stop concentrating on those stubborn facts.

The sheer entertainment value of your hypocrisy makes that statement worth repeating. I'll be impressed once you actually bring forth these facts.

[Reagan Man]

Touche!

Btw, that was a good pro-life link you offered. A keeper.

[Howlin]

McClintock stayed in despite the desperate pleas of party members to drop out.

And didn't he promise that he would drop out if it turned out he was behind?

[Reagan Man]

>>>And didn't he promise that he would drop out if it turned out he was behind?

No. That was propaganda from Darrell Issa.

[bert]

.....but he holds no influence over conservative Republican's......

There's much more than conservative Republicans. A less than pure as the driven snow conservative delivering an oratorical masterpiece with an Austriam accent can be exceedingly powerful.

Arnold offers a solution. He offers hope. He offers reality beyond everyday drudgery. He can paint blue sky and sunshine over the gloom and cloudy week that will be the Rat convention.

The people in the middle don't have the intellectual capacity to be conservative, all they want is to feel good. perhaps that is Arnold'd task and destiny.

[Reagan Man]

>>>Arnold offers a solution.

Yeah. Political liberalism. No thanks.

[NittanyLion]

You've failed to prove a contradiction. Just saying it doesn't make it so. Try moving away from semantics and back up your next statement with facts.

#42: Giuliani's position is secured because he is an American icon, and a Republican hero, just as Arnold is.

#67: I said they are both American icons and Republican heroes. Would you argue that Arnold is an American icon? He was one far before Rudi ever became one. What about Republican hero? I'd say he is, as the man who single-handedly saved the California Republican party. Both men fit these descriptions, but for very different reasons.

#83: I said American icon [in the context of your reply, not a hero]. Just like Ronald Reagan was before he became a Republican hero.

#186: It's both.

I doubt even John Kerry could change his position as rapidly as you have, but I suppose that's what happens when one lacks an ideological base.

Opinion dynamics polling agrees with me. Nice that you found a blog to back you up, though.

I'm open to persuasion. Show me a cite and I'll take a look at it, but intuitively it's hard to believe as many Republicans as Democrats are pro-life.

As for the rest of your post, I generally don't respond to mindless drivel and personal attacks.

[counterpunch]

You still claim that GovRino is a political conservative, even after you've been given endless examples of his political liberalism.

You have a pretty low threshhold for what you consider "liberalism". I get the feeling that some people here think anything short of dragging your woman around by the hair is "liberal".
I keep asking myself this question: who is the real "RINO"? The Republican who wins the office for his party, campaigns for the party to get more Republicans elected, and brings new life, voters, and respect to the GOP, or the the one who constantly slags him for doing it, bringing only harm to the GOP?

You continue to break Reagan's 11th Commandment. You bring dishonor and disgrace to Ronald Reagan's name. Please stop using it. You do not represent him or his values. You bring nothing but shame to his name and his party.

McClintock wasn't a spoiler. He represented political conservatism and remains a loyal Republican.

McClintock was a spoiler, but just not a very good one. He was't successful enough to actually spoil the Republicans' victory. He is no loyal Republican. Period. No way you can pretend he is loyal. If he were loyal, he wouldn't have been playing the spoiler. He may indeed represent the far extreme of political conservativism, but don't confuse that with being a loyal Republican. A loyal Republican has the victory of the party as his primary concern. The Republican party is a network of politicians helping each other raise money and get elected. McClintock does not fit that description. Arnold fits it far better. If anyone is a "RINO" it is McClintock. He has worked against the Republican party far more than he has worked for it. At this point, even John McCain is a more loyal Republican than Tom McClintock.

[Howlin]

Frankly, I can't tell their propaganda from yours anymore.

[NittanyLion]

Thanks. I was [pleasantly] surprised to see such a high percentage of Republicans willing to describe abortion in such strong terms.