Posted on 05/29/2004 12:24:36 PM PDT by Destro
Walker called it as he saw it at Racak. And the evidence supports him. I don't know how he came to be a member of NAAC, whether he was invited or asked to join, but if you think money was used to influence Walker's professional judgment at Racak, write to your congressman or to the State Department or call the nearest federal attorney's office and if it's true, let's get him in jail. For sure, you would not say our diplomat was bribed without some evidence, right?
If you look up Waffen SS Order of Battle you will not find "Serbisches Freiwilligen Korps der SS" in it. Because it was not part of Waffen SS while Serbia was occupied by the Nazis.
From the link you provided , allegedly Waffen SS took comand of SFK in NOVEMBER 1944.
Just to remind you that Serbia was liberated from the German Nazi occupation in OCTOBER 1944.
Or, for the historically impaired, Nazis took control of SFK when SFK LOST war in Serbia and fled from Partisans and Red Army.
If you feel so compelled to lecture anyone on WWII history, perhaps you should first read the reputable sources to familiarize yourself with the subject. Good place to start are American books printed before 1989.
Well done, DTA, you got that exactly right. As the Serbian Volunteer Corps, they were under the control of the Nedic collaborationist government from 1941-1944 and were well known for their hard fighting against the Partisan resistance organizations. Since they were Nazi collaborators it was natural they would flee when the Red Army arrived. So they did so and then continued to fight for the Nazi cause under the direct control of the SS.
perhaps you should first read the reputable sources to familiarize yourself with the [WWII]subject..Good place to start are American books ...
Why DTA, are you on some kind of 12-step recovery program? Yesterday, you admitted that innocent Albanians in Kosovo were killed by Serbs and today you confessed that reading American history books is a good idea. I applaud your progress and eagerly await what tomorrow will bring!
From: ORTHODOX Digest - 5 Oct 2000 to 6 Oct 2000 (#2000-281) From: Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
While we Orthodox fight among ourselves: Roman Catholicism Surplanting Orthodoxy in Kosovo
"A fertile birthrate and Serbian flight following the NATO bombing campaign has Kosovo Catholics in the ascendence"
By Frank Brown PRIZREN, Yugoslavia, Aug. 22
(RNS)--Throughout Kosovo, there are two major kinds of churches, Roman Catholic and Serbian Orthodox. It is easy to tell the difference. The Serbian Orthodox churches are notable for the NATO tanks parked outside, for the rows of coiled razor wire, for the sandbagged guardposts, and for the soldiers with automatic weapons who demand identification from visitors. Roman Catholic churches in Kosovo are unguarded and unfortified.
Kosovo's 60,000 Catholics, who make up about 4% of the province's population, are enjoying a period of long-awaited freedom and growth. At the same time, the once dominant Serbian Orthodox Church is under steady attack from ethnic Albanian Muslims here who identify the Serbian church with decades of government discrimination.
Because the vast majority of Kosovo Catholics are ethnic Albanians, there is little of the ethnic animosity that divides Orthodox Serbs and Muslim Albanians.
In a recent interview in his residence in Kosovo's second-largest city, Roman Catholic Bishop Marko Sopi spoke brightly of the church's future in the brutalized province, where a NATO-led military force and a United Nations administration are slowly restoring order. "If the economic conditions get better, we will grow. The birth rate is high, and as long as people stay here, we will grow," said Sopi, 62, noting that Catholic and Muslim families in Kosovo typically include four or five children.
An improving Kosovo economy may also lure back some of the 40,000 Kosovar Catholics who make up Albanian-language parishes in Croatia, Austria, Germany, and Detroit, Sopi said. The Vatican, too, would appear to have confidence in Kosovo's Catholics. In late June, it declared the province an apostolic administration and named Sopi apostolic administrator.
Under canon law, apostolic administrations are forerunners to full-fledged dioceses in regions where a diocesan structure is not practical. Previously, Kosovo was part of the diocese of Skopje, Macedonia, a country that achieved independence from Yugoslavia in 1991. If current trends continue, Roman Catholicism will supplant Serbian Orthodoxy as the dominant Christian faith in Kosovo.
About 150,000 Serbs have fled Kosovo in the last year since NATO forces led the return of ethnic Albanians. That leaves roughly 100,000 nominally Orthodox Serbs behind, living in a hostile and dangerous environment.
Bishop Sopi, a genial man with an authoritative bearing, said in an earlier interview that local Serbs' flight from Kosovo was a natural process. "One thing must be clear: The Serbs did not just run to Serbia because the Albanians were driving them out," he said, adding that the Serbs "behaved themselves very badly for the last 10 years and especially during the war, so they have reason to fear for their lives."
During 78 days of NATO bombing and Serb attacks on Albanian Kosovars, Sopi remained in Kosovo along with the vast majority of his 36 priests and 70 nuns. He said Catholics were not subject to discrimination for their faith.
Muslim leaders, however, say 217 mosques in the region have been damaged. Serbian Orthodox clergy cite 80 churches and monasteries that have been desecrated. With plenty of priestly vocations, pledges from Western Catholic organizations to construct a first-ever Catholic kindergarten and primary school, and warm relations with politically ascendant Kosovar Muslims, the Catholic Church here is poised to grow at a rate not seen since the late 19th century, when Ottoman rulers permitted a flurry of church building.
Aside from the demographic dynamic created by departing Serbs and highly fertile Kosovar Catholics, some longtime parishioners say the Catholic Church will grow simply because it has a better image. "Catholicism is more civilized, and the people of Kosovo have seen that," said Pal Kukeli, 55, a Catholic farmer taking a cigarette break from an ordination Mass on a recent Saturday in Kosovo's capital, Pristina. "We are turning toward Europe. The Catholic Church will grow without a doubt."
Bahtir Hamza, another Catholic taking a break during the 2 1/2-hour ordination service attended by dozens of clergy and three Catholic hierarchs from the Balkans, said he was a rarity in Kosovo: a Muslim who converted to Catholicism.
Since converting, Hamza, a 44-year-old writer, said he has encountered opposition from neighbors in his Muslim village to the idea of converting his home into a Roman Catholic Church. "I believe that every Albanian is a Catholic," said Hamza, a lively man sporting a white goatee. "The people who are Muslims were forced to be that way by the Turks. This is the disaster that befell the Albanian people."
Despite the neighbors' hostility, Hamza vowed, "I will make my house a church so we can destroy the primitivism of Islam." Such views do not appear to be widely held.
Bishop Sopi takes pains to emphasize his post-war work on Kosovo's Interreligious Council with Kosovo's Grand Mufti Rexhep Boja and Serbian Orthodox Bishop Artemije Radosavljevic.
According to Andreas Szolgyemy, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's religion adviser in Kosovo, Catholics and Muslims have long enjoyed close relations in the region. He related his experience attending two religious holidays last winter in Pristina, Kosovo's capital. "At midnight Mass Christmas, in the Catholic church, I would say that half the 2,000 or 3,000 people were Muslims," said Szolgyemy, adding that several weeks later, he went to a Muslim event attended by about 100,000 people marking the end of Ramadan. "I was told that 500 or 600 of the people there were Catholics."
Isn't it common for the Vatican to create diocese according to geographical designations? Kosovo and Albania are separate diocese because they are in different nations: one in Albania, the other in Serbia.
It would be disturbing to discover that they had created a diocese serving Kosovo alone as that might suggest they were trying to influence the politics of that region...yet again.
mark, the pro-Serbs here on FR have a far better understanding of the history and situation of the Balkans that you can possibly imagine. We do not see this as a battle of pure good and pure evil...except for the al Qaeda operatives, of course, they are pure evil.
Of course, mark, we harbor no such illusions about you being able to set aside the anti-Serb propaganda that you clearly hold so dear.
Yes, SFK were collaborationists during Nazi occupation, but that does not mean they were Waffen SS as you claim. They were not. And their number was insignifficant, several hundred strong.
Wehrmacht was not Waffen SS, although many Wehrmacht servicemen were Nazis. Croatian Domobrans were not Waffen SS and so on. By what logic SFK becomes Wafffen SS?
Only because construct "Serb Waffen SS" is sweet sound to your ears?
You deliberatelly mix apples with oranges again ( or in Balkan parlance, sell bull's testicles as kidneys :-) .
"Zbor" was organized on fascist ideology of Ljotic, not Nazi ideology of Adolph Hitler. If you forgot, the Serbs were UNTERMENSCH for Nazis, just they are today for Soros-finaced sleazebags.
You either do not know the difference between Nazism and Fascist ideology or you know but hope others.
During WWII, from the territory of Yugoslavia, only Croats, Bosnain Muslims, Albanians and ethnic Germans served in Waffen SS ( Waffen SS divisions Kama, Handzar, Skenderbeg and Prinz Eugen)
This is the unpleasant fact Croatian, Muslim and Albanian propagandists try to hide. Some go as far as to accuse Serbs for the Holocaust in order to exonerate Nazis from guilt. In that case, we speak of Nazi/Holocaust revisionism.
With your smearing of Serbs at all cost, you are heading in that direction.
Report of the International Commission to Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars
Published 1914 by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
p.7
in the Balkans
it is impossible to avoid the reproach of a party, if one does not take sides with it against the others
One thing is for sure, one cannot logically argue for Kosovo independence under the KLA remnants and then demand that the Serbs be forced to remain as part of Bosnia.
That is the West's new Balkan paradox.
Please do not misconstrue what I have said. I have said that some albanian dead were innocent Albanian civilians killed by Serbs. Some. But the majority were neither civilians, nor innocent no killed by Serbs. It has a different meaning than your propagandistic drivel "you admitted that innocent Albanians in Kosovo were killed by Serbs". I never said that, becausde it is simply not true.
I have never said that "reading American history books is a good idea."
I said "Good place to start are American books printed before 1989."
And there is a solid reason for that.
Since 1883, from the start of diplomatic relations between Serbia and USA, Serbia was considered an ally. American books written before, during and after WWII provide fairly accurate view of the Balkan politics. SOme important events are ommited, some exagerated, but there were no outright lies. Military books are especially good.
It all changed with the fall of Berlin Wall in 1989. Overnight, Serbs became designated enemy for U.S. and the books printed after 1989 are in most cases heavily biased or outright fraudulent.
But brings Pulitzer and sells well.
Your construct of Serbian Waffen SS was debunked. Then you pull the reserve chute and attempt to get away with misconstruing what I have said on other thread.
But guess what,"If my reserve don't blossom round, I'll be the first one on the ground"
That's the only progress I see in your case. You will bury yourself deep into the ground with each untruth you post.
They had self-rule in Albania, but for some reason they preferred to immigrate to Serbia/Kosovo.
"Professional judgment"?! You mean the judgement acquired by being around death squads in Central America?
Americans and British carpet bombed Belgrade on Easter 1944. Bombing Christian Allies on Easter Sunday . I guess it becomes a tradition.
What you fail to note is the 20,000 Bosnian Muslims who fought gleefully in the SS. As a percentage of able bodies Muslims at the time, it is a huge percent. Roughly, Bosnian Muslims served as a higher percentage in the SS than did Americans in all branches of service during WWII.
In Kosovo and Metohija one found a similar story, in certain extremist areas, the Albanian population were zealous pro-Nazi's
In Croatia & Dalmatia, great masses of troops were sent all over Europe helping the master race
But the highest percentage of population devoted to Gross Deutschland was of course in Solvenia whose inhabitants became German citizens.
This stands in great contrast to the participation of Serbs who were murdered by the hundreds of thousands
Your characterisation is a insult to those millions of innocent who perished in the Holocaust
Only half the people, the stupid half.
Now Mark listen up and learn. Racak and surrounding area consisted of strong supporters of the LDK party. Rugova was the head of the LDK and the voted in President of KOSOVO at the time. The KLA considered Rugova a traitor because of attending the big peace conference in France and trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement i.e. avoid bloodshed. Thaci, the criminal terrorist who supported shooting policeman in the back, declared Rugova and his LDK party traitors which means that if you support Rugova you have just been demoted to a waste of skin as far as the KLA were concerned. Getting the picture yet? Of course your average LDK member or official would ponder why this Neanderthal KLA soldier was pointing an AK47 at his brain while being systematically beaten to death all because this individual believed in a more civilized way of doing things like for example believing in the practice of democracy. Thaci and his goons only understand killing. I know this because I interviewed several LDK officials who were left for dead and managed to survive the KLA love for fellow man.
Now take a deep breath and imagine if you have a village called Racak that supports Rugova (70% of the Albanians supported him by the way) what are these people to the KLA? Well my boy just some cannon fodder waiting to happen which it did. The KLA used these people who did not support Thaci politically and guess what martyred them for the cause. In this case the KLA forced them to stand and fight with KLA guns at their backs. Where were all the other villagers if RACAK was taken by surprise. A T-55 makes a lot of noise and all the Albanians knew the VJ were coming. Why no old ladies, kids etc. Simply because the KLA said they were going to take a stand and the Racak villagers were going to help if they liked it or not, except they would be doing most of the dying i.e. 45 villagers and 11 KLA dead. Makes you wonder who was in charge of the operation don't it? So the 11 KLA terrorists are taken away when the KLA take over Racak as a result of the VJ leaving. Only the dead villager are left. Next you have Wild Willy Walker walking alllllll over the crime scene blah blah balh and poof the KLA have NATO coming across the boarder. The recent set up by the KLA which resulted in the further killing of the Serbs civilians in Kosovo is the best example that supports what KLA are all about.
The KLA staged some problems in Mitrovica causing the balk of the NATO troops to deploy there while the KLA and friend killed the Serbs in other parts of Kosovo. Mark tell me how many of the Serbs are left in Pristina right now? None because your friends the Albanians killed them all. Does it give you that warm and fuzzy feeling inside knowing your KLA buddies have once again got their way through deception in order to continue the genocide of the remaining Serbs in Kosovo. They are nothing but cold blooded killers, to the Serbs and to their own. I know because I worked on the KLA in the British Sector Pristina back in 1999 and nothing you say will convince me that the Serbs are the problem. There were some atrocities but nothing compared to what the KLA have done. Remi and Latif Gashi who I have dealt with are prime examples of serial killers/terrorists who systematically hunted down so called collaborators and made them disappear. Sabit Geci was Gashi right hand man who is responsible for the deaths of 40 individuals by his own hand. When NATO can not commit to Kosovo because of other priorities the Serbs will have but no choice but to enter Kosovo and deal with the KLA and very effectively. One day the KLA will take a side and guess what they wont be choosing ours and because? The Serbs have known what has been coming for a long time. Racak happened for a reason and the KLA made it happen just like what happened to the remaining unarmed Serbs in Pristina. Im sure you can live with that.
Now Mark listen up and learn. Racak and surrounding area consisted of strong supporters of the LDK party. Rugova was the head of the LDK and the voted in President of KOSOVO at the time. The KLA considered Rugova a traitor because of attending the big peace conference in France and trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement i.e. avoid bloodshed. Thaci, the criminal terrorist who supported shooting policeman in the back, declared Rugova and his LDK party traitors which means that if you support Rugova you have just been demoted to a waste of skin as far as the KLA were concerned. Getting the picture yet? Of course your average LDK member or official would ponder why this Neanderthal KLA soldier was pointing an AK47 at his brain while being systematically beaten to death all because this individual believed in a more civilized way of doing things like for example believing in the practice of democracy. Thaci and his goons only understand killing. I know this because I interviewed several LDK officials who were left for dead and managed to survive the KLA love for fellow man.
Now take a deep breath and imagine if you have a village called Racak that supports Rugova (70% of the Albanians supported him by the way) what are these people to the KLA? Well my boy just some cannon fodder waiting to happen which it did. The KLA used these people who did not support Thaci politically and guess what martyred them for the cause. In this case the KLA forced them to stand and fight with KLA guns at their backs. Where were all the other villagers if RACAK was taken by surprise. A T-55 makes a lot of noise and all the Albanians knew the VJ were coming. Why no old ladies, kids etc. Simply because the KLA said they were going to take a stand and the Racak villagers were going to help if they liked it or not, except they would be doing most of the dying i.e. 45 villagers and 11 KLA dead. Makes you wonder who was in charge of the operation don't it? So the 11 KLA terrorists are taken away when the KLA take over Racak as a result of the VJ leaving. Only the dead villager are left. Next you have Wild Willy Walker walking alllllll over the crime scene blah blah balh and poof the KLA have NATO coming across the boarder. The recent set up by the KLA which resulted in the further killing of the Serbs civilians in Kosovo is the best example that supports what KLA are all about.
The KLA staged some problems in Mitrovica causing the balk of the NATO troops to deploy there while the KLA and friend killed the Serbs in other parts of Kosovo. Mark tell me how many of the Serbs are left in Pristina right now? None because your friends the Albanians killed them all. Does it give you that warm and fuzzy feeling inside knowing your KLA buddies have once again got their way through deception in order to continue the genocide of the remaining Serbs in Kosovo. They are nothing but cold blooded killers, to the Serbs and to their own. I know because I worked on the KLA in the British Sector Pristina back in 1999 and nothing you say will convince me that the Serbs are the problem. There were some atrocities but nothing compared to what the KLA have done. Remi and Latif Gashi who I have dealt with are prime examples of serial killers/terrorists who systematically hunted down so called collaborators and made them disappear. Sabit Geci was Gashi right hand man who is responsible for the deaths of 40 individuals by his own hand. When NATO can not commit to Kosovo because of other priorities the Serbs will have but no choice but to enter Kosovo and deal with the KLA and very effectively. One day the KLA will take a side and guess what they wont be choosing ours and because? The Serbs have known what has been coming for a long time. Racak happened for a reason and the KLA made it happen just like what happened to the remaining unarmed Serbs in Pristina. Im sure you can live with that.
Here's a cut and paste of exactly what I said about WWII:
Albania, along with Greece and Serbia, were conquered and occupied by the Axis in WWII. Those were the three countries in the Balkans that were the home of extensive resistance movements. Albania, although a much smaller county and on a much smaller scale, mirrored closely the resistance movement in Yugoslavia. They had anti-Axis nationalists, anti-Axis Royalists, and of course the communist Partisans under Tito-ally and future dictator Hoxha. Similar to the Chetnik-Partisan fights in Serbia, the Albanians did not just fight the Italians and Germans, but often each other.
Just like Serbia with Nedic, the Albanians had a puppet government although they did not have a home-grown fascist movement such as the Serbian "Zbor".
And then I said: Now, DTA, what about these guys: Serbisches Freiwilligen Korps der SS
You can read a little bit more about Serb collaborationist and SS forces here.
DTA: "Nazis took control of SFK when SFK LOST war in Serbia and fled from Partisans and Red Army.
Me: Well done, DTA, you got that exactly right. As the Serbian Volunteer Corps, they were under the control of the Nedic collaborationist government from 1941-1944 and were well known for their hard fighting against the Partisan resistance organizations. Since they were Nazi collaborators it was natural they would flee when the Red Army arrived. So they did so and then continued to fight for the Nazi cause under the direct control of the SS.
OK, Vooch & DTA--you did some name-calling. Now back it up. Use my exact words. Support your positions.
And this is still true.
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