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Mark Steyn: A Biological Dead End
The Western Standard ^ | May 17, 2004 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 05/28/2004 12:19:15 PM PDT by quidnunc

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To: Snuffington

25 years ago in one of the most liberal cities in America, Gainesville Florida My wife and I and our 4 kids and a friend , his wife and 4 kids were in the grocery store. All of our kids were well behaved in stores. My friend and I were off in one direction and my wife was off in another. K. had all 8 younguns. When the rest of us drifted back a crowd had collected around K and were berating her terribly for the horrible things she was doing to The Planet. K was smiling and I heard her to say as she patted her stomach,"I'm pregnant. It's twins!"(she lied) The security guard showed up about then and ordered everyone to go about their business.


21 posted on 05/28/2004 3:20:14 PM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE.)
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To: Snuffington

If you can handle three or more, more power to you. My two "babies" -- wife and four-year-old son, run me ragged (we never hand him off to babysitters, friends or relatives). And we live in the nation's most child-hostile city, New York. Not that we've done anything to forestall having more, but it doesn't bother me one bit, that our son will already be school (beginning in September) before we have any more.


22 posted on 05/28/2004 3:54:57 PM PDT by mrustow
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To: quidnunc

BTTT


23 posted on 05/28/2004 3:57:46 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: quidnunc
"The design flaw of the radically secularist welfare state is that it depends on a religious-society birth rate to sustain it."

Why socialism is a disaster and fatally flawed. This and the idea of "forced egalitarianism" dooms these societies to a future of great civil unrest.

24 posted on 05/28/2004 5:06:42 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Snuffington
I wonder how long before the welfare-state supporters will be forced to face reality.

Not until its too damn late to stop the 'civil unrest' (polite wording for civil war).

25 posted on 05/28/2004 5:07:59 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: arthurus
25 years ago in one of the most liberal cities in America, Gainesville Florida My wife and I and our 4 kids and a friend , his wife and 4 kids were in the grocery store. All of our kids were well behaved in stores. My friend and I were off in one direction and my wife was off in another. K. had all 8 younguns. When the rest of us drifted back a crowd had collected around K and were berating her terribly for the horrible things she was doing to The Planet. K was smiling and I heard her to say as she patted her stomach,"I'm pregnant. It's twins!"(she lied) The security guard showed up about then and ordered everyone to go about their business.

It's at this point that I tell people what to do in the most rude terms possible (really, I'm an easygoing sort, but I have a real ability to be viciously cruel when it's called for). My wife would be worse.

Right now, we have 13-month old twin boys. In about four weeks, we have another on the way. Frankly, we haven't had any such attitudes come up at all, just people who laugh and roll their eyes about how busy we'll be (the obligatory line when they see the twins is 'Boy, you've got your hands full!' We hear that 9 times out of 10.).

26 posted on 05/28/2004 7:05:00 PM PDT by atomicpossum (I give up! Entropy, you win!)
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To: atomicpossum

Boy, you've got your hands full!

Congrats! :))


27 posted on 05/28/2004 7:41:13 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (This is a tag: </> This is a Line ---------)
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To: Snuffington

Welfare states of the world expect Americans to support and protect them, while at the same time reserving the right to complain non stop about the services we're stupidly providing.


28 posted on 05/28/2004 7:50:39 PM PDT by hershey
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To: atomicpossum

One difference here is that my old buddy in Gainesville is a lefty instructor at UF- then a lefty grad student. He has always had a hard time about the 4 kids and used to apologize for them a lot.


29 posted on 05/29/2004 4:27:29 AM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE.)
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To: arthurus
One difference here is that my old buddy in Gainesville is a lefty instructor at UF- then a lefty grad student. He has always had a hard time about the 4 kids and used to apologize for them a lot.

Frankly, I can't see apologizing to anyone that my children exist. And no one better try to get me to, either.

30 posted on 05/29/2004 5:30:39 AM PDT by atomicpossum (I give up! Entropy, you win!)
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To: atomicpossum
Frankly, I can't see apologizing to anyone that my children exist.

His wife has a much better attitude. She loves children and loves raising them. Actually so does he but it conflicts with his environmentalism and numerous other isms that = Academic Liberal.

31 posted on 05/29/2004 7:02:23 PM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE.)
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To: atomicpossum
My daughter, the only child of a single mother, plans to have four children, at least, if her future husband can afford for her not to work outside the home.
She plans to homeschool them all, and write books for extra cash.
She is nine.
I encourage her dreams.
32 posted on 05/29/2004 7:29:02 PM PDT by sarasmom (Sometimes, I wish liberals had beliefs, so I could desecrate them. (spok))
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To: Rummyfan; quidnunc
Rummyfan,

Thanks for the FULL posting...

Quidnunc,

Hope you're having a nice Memorial Day....it's different spending Memorial Day up here in Canada....I miss being able to live in the United States and feeling like I am a part of the remembering process....saw Pres Bush on TV this morning....watched his address at Arlington National Cemetery....was glad I caught that....


There you go again....

Jim Robinson's Master List Of Articles To Be Excerpted:
Updated FR Excerpt and Link Only or Deny Posting List due to Copyright Complaints


"Did I forget to post the full article again? D'OH!!"

FReegards,

ConservativeStLouisGuy

33 posted on 05/31/2004 10:39:19 AM PDT by ConservativeStLouisGuy (11th FReeper Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Unnecessarily Excerpt)
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To: hopespringseternal

'They aren't that expensive if raised right.'

That may be true to some extent ... but raising them right can also be an issue. They ARE expensive regardless. Take into account reduced income while one parent takes paternal leave from work. Or, consider child care, $450/month/child minimum. Throw in increased grocery bills, diapers, baby strollers/carseats/furniture/clothes/etc. Yeah, it CAN be quite expensive in the long run.


34 posted on 06/01/2004 9:53:49 AM PDT by NorthOf45
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To: Rummyfan

Demography, IS destiny......


35 posted on 06/01/2004 9:59:59 AM PDT by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: NorthOf45
Take into account reduced income while one parent takes paternal leave from work. Or, consider child care, $450/month/child minimum.

That falls under the heading of "if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a wagon."

I know lots of people who go that route, and it is just plain stupid. Could we double our income if my wife worked? Well, yes, but we could also double our income if I took a sales job and spent 80 percent of my time traveling.

But that isn't the same as money spent on the child.

And the $450/month/child isn't money spent on the kids, it is money spent on yourself to maintain a certain lifestyle.

36 posted on 06/01/2004 10:47:11 AM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
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To: hopespringseternal

Ah, so to raise a child properly, one parent must sacrifice their career while the other is never around ... how enriching. I guess the other option is to not have children at all. I'll take the "stupid" route thank you.


37 posted on 06/01/2004 5:40:57 PM PDT by NorthOf45
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To: NorthOf45
Ah, so to raise a child properly, one parent must sacrifice their career

Career or child, hmm, why is that not a hard choice for me? For me, a career is a means to an end not the end in itself.

while the other is never around ... how enriching.

But I am around...I don't travel. I suppose our family income is about a third of what it could be if we went full bore for money. I don't miss it one bit. Kids are better.

I guess the other option is to not have children at all. I'll take the "stupid" route thank you.

One shouldn't have children if he is not prepared to orient his lifestyle around having children. Children aren't expensive, but certain lifestyles are expensive with children.

38 posted on 06/01/2004 7:21:44 PM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
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To: hopespringseternal

You go your way and I'll go mine ... both routes have advantages. I don't see it as being black and white.


39 posted on 06/01/2004 7:46:50 PM PDT by NorthOf45
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To: hopespringseternal; NorthOf45

I concur with you as long as career is equated to income.
Once your career revolves around R&D (like mine) and you want to make a difference in the world and for your nation it is not so easy anymore. To get this country ahead in the world you need to live and breathe your area of research. If my wife and I had children I would either fall behind in my area of expertise, or my children would see me as the guy who sometimes comes home in time for supper.


40 posted on 06/01/2004 11:22:40 PM PDT by drtom
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