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To: agrace
"It is an INCENSE altar.

There were two altars in the Jewish temple - one for animal sacrifice and one for incense. There is only one in Revelation, and it is used for incense, clearly from the text -"

Good. Very Good. Now you're coming close to understanding the Catholic Mass. We would say its not JUST an incense altar, but, clearly, it is an altar to offer sacrafice -just UNBLOODY sacrafice. As you have pointed out from Hebrews, it is not the bloody sacrafice being offered over and over again. That happened once. Otherwise, Christ would be continually suffering the crucifixion. You have no idea how many Protestants I've met who routinely accuse the Church of re-crucifying Jesus over and over again. Thank you for being open enough to see that this is NOT what the Mass is.

Consider the words of St. Ambrose: "A priest must offer something in sacrifice and according to the Law he must enter the holy place through blood. Therefore, because God had repudiated the blood of bulls and of rams, it was necessary for this Priest, as you have read, to enter into the Holy of Holies, penetrating the heights of heaven, by means of His own blood, so that He might become an eternal oblation for our sins. Priest and Victim, therefore, are one and the same. But the priesthood and the sacrifice are a duty of the human condition; for like a lamb He was led to the slaughter, and He is a priest according to the order of Melchisedech. (The Faith 3:11:87)"

Further, consider the following explanation from James Akins:

"...one should point out that the book of Hebrews also uses the term "sacrifice" in a unbloody manner and indicates that Christ is sacrificed multiple times in that sense.

'Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf' (Heb. 9:22-24).

Note the plural there: The things of the heavenly temple are purified with better sacrifices than those offered in the earthly sanctuary. But today the only ultimate sacrifice for sin is the sacrifice of Christ, and so it is by the multiple offerings (re-presentations) of Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross that cleanse the heavenly temple."

And, thus, we have the Mass -the multiple offerings(re-presentations, unbloody in nature) of Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross that eternally cleanses the heavenly temple.

472 posted on 05/28/2004 9:41:57 AM PDT by AlguyA
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To: AlguyA
We would say its not JUST an incense altar, but, clearly, it is an altar to offer sacrafice -just UNBLOODY sacrafice.

You're reading into the text again.

And your St. Ambrose contradicts the very words of Hebrews that I posted and that with which you suggest you agree, by saying that Jesus became an eternal oblation.

And you yourself contradict the words of St. Ambrose, who says that Jesus entered the heavenly places by means of His own blood.

Furthermore, you and your commentators deny the various uses of the term "once for all" and the blatant statement of verse 25 that He did not offer Himself often - in any capacity. One use of the plural "sacrifices" negates all the rest? The singular "sacrifice" is used a dozen times in those same verses - what of that?

Bottom line is, an unbloody sacrifice can never remit sin. Check out verse 22 - without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. So what then is the point of an "unbloody" sacrifice?

Jesus' death was for the remission of sin. An incense offering was never used as such. Therefore the "unbloody" sacrifice of incense in Revelation was not for the remission of sin.

484 posted on 05/28/2004 10:16:48 AM PDT by agrace
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