Christian Coalition head (in Ala.) becomes Catholic

AP/Birmingham News ^ | May 26, 04 | KYLE WINGFIELD

[churchillbuff]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) -- As president of the Christian Coalition of Alabama, John Giles is no stranger to a pew. Yet he remembers well the time he got lost in a Roman Catholic church.

"I couldn't even follow the order of service, it was so foreign to me," Giles says of that day some six years ago.

Since then he's found his way and a new home in the Roman Catholic church — a home that might seem foreign to the overwhelmingly Protestant church population of Alabama.

"I have to admit to you that the whole time that I was in that church service, I was reduced to tears, and I couldn't explain it," Giles said Monday in an interview with The Associated Press.

"In fact," he jokes, "you would have thought I had been spending the whole weekend down at the House of the Rising Sun down in New Orleans, that I had all this sin in my life that I had to get out."

In any case, Giles and his wife, Deborah, were received into the Catholic Church at St. Peter's Parish in Montgomery on Easter Sunday.

Such a decision normally wouldn't be a matter of public interest, but Giles says he anticipated the questions that have followed his conversion from the Protestant faith.

"It would be nice if my private, Christian walk could be my private, Christian walk, but it's very difficult in my job for that to be the case," he says.

Giles says he knew the questions would come because as a Protestant he, too, had mistaken notions about Catholics. And the most frequent question he gets from his friends is "why?"

With that in mind he wrote an eight-page letter explaining his reasoning. In it, he explains that he had attended a variety of Protestant churches in Montgomery, including Christian Life Church and River of Life Church.

But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.

Trips to Israel and Rome spurred his curiosity. And the deeper he looked into the faith — which is the largest in the United States but lags behind Southern Baptists and other Protestant denominations in the South — the more he says he realized that many of his beliefs about Catholicism had been wrong.

"There is a perception among Protestants — you kind of have this perception that if you're Episcopal or Catholic, you're not even saved, you're not born again, which is totally a myth," he says.

He recalls one example from the New Year's holiday, which he spent in Florida with the chairman of his board. He had told the chairman of his and Deborah's plans to convert, and he says they were well-received.

"But we went to some other friends of theirs' house on one of the nights we were down there," Giles remembers. "And so we're sitting around visiting and this one lady was teaching a Sunday School class on cults. And she began to name off all the cults that she'd be teaching and named Catholic in there."

He acknowledges that the reaction by his Protestant constituents may be mixed.

"We didn't make this change to win friends and influence people and do it from a popularity standpoint, because we knew that in the state of Alabama, this is probably not a popular position to take in the Christian movement," he says. "So it remains to be seen."

But he hopes they, like he and his wife, will keep an open mind.

"We hope that we could have a small contribution to building bridges where there weren't bridges," he says. "Because Christians are Christians. There's no such thing as Christians and Catholics."

[Cronos]

It's strange isn't it? He calls it a 'simple question' when it's actually pure rhetoric, mostly wrong to boot!

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your reply.

Hey, I can't help it you guys came up with a system that refers to sainthood as a process of canonization of individuals who the church deems worthy..

I can't help it if you stated Catholic doctrine on saints wrong.

Nice recovery attempt though. Still falls short. We are well aware that there are a great many more saints, some even more worthy of inspiration and emulation, whom we don't know about.

We just don't see that as a reason not to honor those we do know about.

[Cronos]

Christian scripture defines the saints as all christians both living and dead

Ok, fine, we'll call them heroes of the faith. Hero of the faith Ignatius, Heroine of the faith Mary etc.

Happy?

[Cronos]

If the two are one and the same, then why do the definitions not match

Because that's your definition and incorrect. Scriptures call on God's saints.

[Havoc]

I can't help it if you stated Catholic doctrine on saints wrong.

I didn't mistate it. You have a process for canonization of people you call saints. To be recognized as a saint, they have to measure up to certain criteria set by Rome. I didn't design it or define it. Rome did. So, no recovery attempt needed.

[Cronos]

Eisenhower:
That's another one I forgot to mention before. If you think they are so "different," where exactly did the foundations of all other Christian denominations come from? Thin air?

Havoc:
Ah, I see, misusing the word again. Do you know the English language? Seriously. Prejudice is judging absent any knowledge. You'd be hard pressed to deny what I'm saying because its in your own teachings. I know, I've debated the stuff for years now. And praytell, what do other denominations have to do with what you do? I'm aware you're trying to use that as a rhetorical device to shift onus from your own problems to someone elses as though that buys you any credibility. Didn't work as a child when mom slapped you and you said 'well brother did it too' and it ain't gonna work as an adult either

Question answered? NO!!

[Cronos]

For roughly 1500 years of History, Catholicism has tried to present itself as the church, A few hundred years after they started, The roman catholics popped up and decided to say they were "the church" and imposed themselves upon the world through fraud as the church and the rightful rulers of empire (the donation of constantine, isidorian and gratian decretals.. etc). From the time of Theodosius forward, anyone claiming Christianity that didn't follow the belief of the sect Theodosius called Catholic was subject to maltreatment, persecution and extermination.

Well the term "Roman Catholics" was coined by Protestants. The Church is THE Christian church. to say that The roman catholics popped up and decided to say they were "the church" is incredibly laughable. It's like saying that the American revolutionaries were involved in taking over Britain from the Celts.

BTW: history lesson: Many of the early Christian Emperors were ARIAN not orthodox.

[conservonator]

Nothing inadiquate about Scripture, just the interpratation some apply to it.

[Cronos]

Rome wasn't "the church", it was "the aggressor" trying to suppress anything that threatened them by exposing what they were - Like Valla who nearly went before the inquisition for merely telling the truth. And like a famous bishop who dared quote history and was called a heretic for his long speach. I'm sure you are familiar with your own church history are you not.

Coo, so for 1500 there were no Christians. All the scriptures from those times are tainted. So, the Bible is not Christian either, by that twisted logic.

[Cronos]

Well, you see, that's why the apostles wrote things down for us - so we could all read their words and make such determinations.

Aha, but those writings ofthe Apostles were handed down through the church which according to Havoc was not Christian, so hence those writings were false, tainted (hmmm.. sounds likeIslamic propaganda). So, the true, true works were the Gnostic works, eh?

[Cronos]

Not little secrets, I'm sorry to say. What I'm discussing is pretty much common knowledge

Actually, what he's discussing is 2 + 2 = 546,135.

[iconoclast]

I'm Protestant, wondering about Catholicism.

I have a feeling you are going to be blessed. I know many, by now, are praying for you.

You have gotten a lot of support, advice, references from your friends here.

Let me offer my 2 cents worth.

All the reading will do you no harm but I suggest you do what Mr. Giles did .... go to a Catholic Church ... often .. go at times when you'll be the only person there ... just be quiet ... look around ... drink it all in ... pray if you feel moved to ... try the kneeler out (go to a different church if there are none).

Go to Mass. Sit in the last row if you feel more comfortable. Just let your mind be still. Let the Spirit do its work. Experience the blessing of worship

God bless.

[Cronos]

. But as you are loathe to use dictionary terms correctly,

Say, weren't you the one that said Remember "Vicar of Christ". That title came from the Roman Emperors. In place of Christ = antichrist.
in here?

[Cronos]

That's his MO. When asked to cite something from Scripture, more often than not he either makes it up, leaves something out, and if all else fails, claims he's being picked on.

[Havoc]

Well the term "Roman Catholics" was coined by Protestants. The Church is THE Christian church. to say that The roman catholics popped up and decided to say they were "the church" is incredibly laughable.

Point taken. It was overly general wasn't it. I should have said "schizmed off".

[Havoc]

Coo, so for 1500 there were no Christians.

Nobody said that. And mocked incredulity while leaping to a false conclusion isn't useful for much.

[Havoc]

Aha, but those writings ofthe Apostles were handed down through the church which according to Havoc was not Christian, so hence those writings were false, tainted (hmmm.. sounds likeIslamic propaganda). So, the true, true works were the Gnostic works, eh?

Well, not exactly. And not by Rome alone. Remember, when people started printing the bible for mass distribution, Rome started killing them for it... Oops, forgot that Guttenberg and others were far more responsible for the spread of God's word than Rome ever was. We don't much see you guys giving credit where it's due either. But you sure can try to claim credit for everything under the sun LOL.

Catholicism didn't write the scriptures. Nor were the scriptures exclusively handed down by Catholicism. And largely, they were handed down in spite of Catholicism. Sorry. Islamic style propaganda? LOL, you're projecting again.

[Cronos]

I quoted the pope on another thread some time back asking Mary to secure his salvation for him in not those precise words but close enough

You mean you said this

Post #70:
When the pope puts his soul in Mary's hands and beseaches her to secure for him his salvation. That's blasphemy. It makes a point. This is not the type of thing that made it into Mel's movie. So I think it goes overboard to say it's "too catholic". I was actually bracing myself to see that sort of thing show up. I'm glad it did not or I'd have asked for my money back.

Post #186
"To you mother of the human family and of nations we confidently entrust the whole of humanity with it's hopes and fears. Do not let it lack the light of true wisdom. Guide it's steps in the ways of peace. Enable all to meet Christ. Sustain us oh virgin mary on our journey of faith and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation" - Pope John Paul II - "Prayer for the Marian year"

Post #199 by presidio:

It really disgusts me that you would delibrately misquote the Pope to make your pathetic anti-Catholicism work. I had know idea that your obsession was this pronounced. The actual prayer actually goes like this:

Enable all to meet Christ, the Way and the Truth and the Life. Sustain us, O Virgin Mary, on our journey of faith and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation. O clement, O loving, O sweet Mother of God and our Mother, Mary!

You left the bolded part out because it destroys the point you were trying to make. That part of the prayer is the Pope's appeal to the Blessed Mother to help us know Christ better. As you may or may not know. The part you omitted is, of course, a direct referrence to John 14:6

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"

I am all to happy to expose you for the cheap charlatan that you are. You tellingly did not provide a link. The Pope's prayer, in its entirety, is here. You will be a much healthier person when you give up your irrational crusade against the RCC and focus on the things that are truely important.

As I have pointed out several times, it might sound like blasphemy with the omitted line. That's why you omitted it, of course.

And that's when Havoc post #265:
You can call him blasphemous titles all you will and in your opinion state that he is holy while he blasphemes. Your message betrays you. I have no authority save that given me by Christ. My authority is not what counts. Your authority doesn't count. The authority of the Word of God is what counts and it stands in testimony against you.

Havoc (#1054): Can't refute the scriptures, so as the pharisees with christ, you attempt to refute me with personal attacks and slurs.

Havoc (#1094): Need a hammer and nails? Trees are a dime a dozen.

Havoc (#1102): Hey, I didn't claim to Be Jesus. The problem for you is, what if I were? Look at the topic of this thread. Not one of you had the sense to even question if I might be right.

Havoc (#1104): I have no reason to backpedal. None whatsoever.

[Cronos]

CronosCoo, so for 1500 there were no Christians.


Havoc: Nobody said that.

Actually, you did. You said that the Church was an imposter etc. etc. and since that WAS the church (inclusive of both what are now termed the Eastern Churchs and what is now termed the Catholic church), that means that there were no Christians for 1500 years until the "reformation"

[Cronos]

Oops, forgot that Guttenberg and others were far more responsible for the spread of God's word than Rome ever was.

I presume you mean to say that Gutenberg was far more responsible for the spread of God's word than the Christian church was? So, you mean to say that the spread of Christianity to the Germans, Anglo-Saxons, Scandanavians, Slavs, Egyptians, Indians, South Americans, Africans was not a lot of people brought to the faith?

And do you seriously think there weren't Bibles before Gutenberg? The monks labouriously wrote out Bibles in exquisite calligraphy.