Christian Coalition head (in Ala.) becomes Catholic

AP/Birmingham News ^ | May 26, 04 | KYLE WINGFIELD

[churchillbuff]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) -- As president of the Christian Coalition of Alabama, John Giles is no stranger to a pew. Yet he remembers well the time he got lost in a Roman Catholic church.

"I couldn't even follow the order of service, it was so foreign to me," Giles says of that day some six years ago.

Since then he's found his way and a new home in the Roman Catholic church — a home that might seem foreign to the overwhelmingly Protestant church population of Alabama.

"I have to admit to you that the whole time that I was in that church service, I was reduced to tears, and I couldn't explain it," Giles said Monday in an interview with The Associated Press.

"In fact," he jokes, "you would have thought I had been spending the whole weekend down at the House of the Rising Sun down in New Orleans, that I had all this sin in my life that I had to get out."

In any case, Giles and his wife, Deborah, were received into the Catholic Church at St. Peter's Parish in Montgomery on Easter Sunday.

Such a decision normally wouldn't be a matter of public interest, but Giles says he anticipated the questions that have followed his conversion from the Protestant faith.

"It would be nice if my private, Christian walk could be my private, Christian walk, but it's very difficult in my job for that to be the case," he says.

Giles says he knew the questions would come because as a Protestant he, too, had mistaken notions about Catholics. And the most frequent question he gets from his friends is "why?"

With that in mind he wrote an eight-page letter explaining his reasoning. In it, he explains that he had attended a variety of Protestant churches in Montgomery, including Christian Life Church and River of Life Church.

But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.

Trips to Israel and Rome spurred his curiosity. And the deeper he looked into the faith — which is the largest in the United States but lags behind Southern Baptists and other Protestant denominations in the South — the more he says he realized that many of his beliefs about Catholicism had been wrong.

"There is a perception among Protestants — you kind of have this perception that if you're Episcopal or Catholic, you're not even saved, you're not born again, which is totally a myth," he says.

He recalls one example from the New Year's holiday, which he spent in Florida with the chairman of his board. He had told the chairman of his and Deborah's plans to convert, and he says they were well-received.

"But we went to some other friends of theirs' house on one of the nights we were down there," Giles remembers. "And so we're sitting around visiting and this one lady was teaching a Sunday School class on cults. And she began to name off all the cults that she'd be teaching and named Catholic in there."

He acknowledges that the reaction by his Protestant constituents may be mixed.

"We didn't make this change to win friends and influence people and do it from a popularity standpoint, because we knew that in the state of Alabama, this is probably not a popular position to take in the Christian movement," he says. "So it remains to be seen."

But he hopes they, like he and his wife, will keep an open mind.

"We hope that we could have a small contribution to building bridges where there weren't bridges," he says. "Because Christians are Christians. There's no such thing as Christians and Catholics."

[PetroniusMaximus]

***I do hope you got the point of the analogy however.***

I did.

A little incense, a little candlelight, a little moody music, a flash of gold, jewels, priestly vestments, maybe some marble - all of these things are supposed to at the real meat and potatoes to the hum-drum diet of the grace of God.

But I'll tell you something - no ritual man has ever created, no show of religion can even compare with the wonder, glory and light of the Holy Spirit opening your eyes and heart to the exalted beauties of Jesus Christ through the sacred pages of the Bible!

[PetroniusMaximus]

***please just read your Bible and you will see that JESUS GAVE the power to FORGIVE sins to Peter, who was the FIRST Pope and the rest of the Apostles. ***

 

Could you please direct me to the verse in the Bible where Peter is called a "Pope".

 

 

 

 

Have you ever wondered how Peter used this power of the forgiveness of sins (since he is never pictured in the Bible either hearing confession of offering absolution?)

 

 

 

You can see how he used it here...

"But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, ... Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every o­ne of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

...And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

...And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.... And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved."

 

 

 

 

 

He exercised the power of the forgiveness of sins by PREACHING THE GOSPEL.

 

Those who RECEIVED his message, repented and were baptized had their sins forgiven. The result of this was devotion, fellowship, prayer, gladness of heart, praise to God and the fact that they were now counted among the number of those whom God had saved.

That is how you have your sins forgiven.

[D-fendr]

I did.

I don't think so. Or, at least, you missed it's point in reply to the poster.

all of these things are supposed to at the real meat and potatoes to the hum-drum diet of the grace of God.

No....

Let's try another analogy: God gives you the universe, beauty, goodness and truth, a garden, the cosmos and mind, body and soul with which to experience it.

You say: do I really need all this?

no ritual man has ever created, no show of religion can even compare with the wonder, glory and light of the Holy Spirit opening your eyes and heart to the exalted beauties of Jesus Christ through the sacred pages of the Bible!

Or through the eyes of child, or through a mother's touch, or standing on tiny rock in space knowing you exist right now, sitting in the lap of immense compassion, and your saviour is with you closer than you are to your self.

Sometimes we have an experience so life changing that we wish it for everyone; and we sometimes think it must happen the exact same way, and only that way, for everyone. That's not so, though it's human nature and compassionate.

But, it is not a contest to see who exalts scripture the most; it's not a contest to determine what can be removed from God's creation, not a contest to find the minimum possible necessary to worship, experience or know God.

It's not a contest at all.

[David1]

No, you are just misinterpreting scripture. I certainly would love to discuss these differences between your faith and that of the Catholic Church. I would love to tackle one by one each of the issues you bring up from "call no man father," the mediator issue, to sola scripture. Do you have an e-mail address we can discuss these issues? Or should we use freep mail???

[NYer]

This blows my mind. I'm Protestant, wondering about Catholicism.

Within the one Catholic Church there are in fact many churches which maintain their own traditions of theology, liturgy, spirituality, and government that are quite different from those usually associated with "Roman," or Latin (Western) Catholicism.

As most of us realize, the Church began in the East. Our Lord lived and died and resurrected in the Holy Land. The Church spread from Jerusalem throughout the known world. As the Church spread, it encountered different cultures and adapted, retaining from each culture what was consistent with the Gospel. In the city of Alexandria, the Church became very Egyptian; in Antioch it remained very Jewish; in Rome it took on an Italian appearance and in the Constantinople it took on the trappings of the Roman imperial court. All the churches which developed this way were Eastern, except Rome. Most Catholics in the United States have their roots in Western Europe where the Roman rite predominated. It has been said that the Eastern Catholic Churches are "the best kept secret in the Catholic Church."

The Vatican II Council declared that "all should realize it is of supreme importance to understand, venerate, preserve, and foster the exceedingly rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern churches, in order faithfully to preserve the fullness of Christian tradition" (Unitatis Redintegrato, 15). Pope John Paul II said that "the Catholic Church is both Eastern and Western."

You can learn more about both 'lungs' of the Catholic Church at this link.

Catholic Rites and Churches

Being in Alabama, you are right near Mother Angelica's television network. Check your local cable provider for access to EWTN. On Monday evening, Marcus Grodi, a protestant convert, hosts a live program entitled The Journey Home . Each week, Marcus' guest is a convert who tells his faith journey. This is followed by an opportunity to call in and ask questions.

Marcus also has his own web site. The purpose of The Coming Home Network International (CHNetwork) is to provide fellowship, encouragement and support for pastors and laymen of other traditions (Protestant, Orthodox, etc..) who are somewhere along the journey or have already converted to the Catholic Church. The CHNetwork is committed to assisting and standing beside all inquirers, serving as a friend and an advocate.

COMING HOME NETWORK

God bless you on your journey!

[sneakers]

I am Catholic too and we do the 'coffee and donuts' thing once a month after the 11:00 mass. Most people head out to spend the time with their families - some stay for private prayer. There are plenty of opportunities in our active parish for fellowship. I prefer to go home and spend the time with my family on Sunday. Besides, the Mass itself is family coming together.

[Desdemona]

For people of this time, congregational singing is a new thing. And more importantly, it's not cool. It stuns me that no one takes group psychology into account when analyzing why Catholics don't sing. Plain and simply, it ain't cool and people who don't have good voices don't want to embarass themselves.

[Desdemona]

It is as simple as Luther didn't like what was in those seven books. No, they were not used by all Jewish groups at the time, but they were used by Jesus's group. There are tons of New Testament allusions to the seven. I don't have the list, but someone on this forum painstakingly compiled a list of scripture quotes that compares lines from the New Testament and Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, and 1&2 Maccabbees.

It also seems to be strange that Luther would claim the Jews didn't used Maccabbees when Channakah comes from their story. Just one of many paradoxes.

[Desdemona]

Re: confession, according to Catholic exorcists (I haven't read up on the protestants yet), one should never go into an exorcism not in a state of Grace (confession and Mass taking Eucharist THAT day). It seems that the deamons know about unconfessed sins and will use that information to their advantage. And the sins must be confessed to a priest and forgiven within the sacrament. That means penance must be served, in addition to absolution. The priest does say "I absolve you of your sins, In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."+ It's not like they just do it on a whim.

With scripture telling us that Christ breathed on the Apostles, giving them the power to forgive in his name and the first hand testimony of many good people doing the Lord's work, I'll go to confession, thank you.

[Aquinasfan]

You admit you despise people you depend on to hold the line and to elect their candidates.

I admitted that I despise Fundamentalists? Easy on the caffeine dude.

[Aquinasfan]

With all due respect, there are a few, very few, on the religion forum here who do say that.

I must have met all of them then. They've tended to be hyper-Calvinists.

[Preachin']

But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.

What?

[AnAmericanMother]

Glad to help!

Speaking as a former Episcopalian, the book I found most helpful was Canon Francis Ripley's This Is the Faith. It's a relatively old book (1951) that's been brought up to date and reprinted recently.

Ripley was head of the Catholic Missionary Society in England - his book is a compilation of talks that he gave to inquirers. It's geared towards Anglicans so it speaks to me personally, but I also like his positive attitude. He isn't shy, he tells it like it is, with lots of Scripture citations and examples from the Church Fathers. (After all, to put it in secular terms, would you trust a salesman who didn't believe his product was the very best available?)

My husband refers to the book as "Ripley's Believe It or Else". < LOL >

[Havoc]

What sort of horrible stereotypes and prejudices would those be? Really curious.

[dangus]

New Advent?

The encyclopedia they have on line was written in 1911. It's a great resource for some true facts about antiquity but is not apologetic, and not authoritative, and very alien to Protestantism.

For purely academic sources, the Catechism is much better. Just be sure to actually READ the foot-notes. For instance, just because they cite St. Augustine (rather than directly citing scripture) doesn't mean St. Augustine is the source for the doctrine (and not scripture), but rather that St. Augustine explains it well.

But I'd much more recommend someone like Scott Hahn. Not exactly the magisterium himself, but writes from the perspective of a protestant convert.

[vollmond]

- it's too uncomfortable and it feels like people are mostly making sure they saw all who showed up.

LOL! You must have been to a Baptist Church once or twice in your life eh? (Just a joke, I am a Baptist!)

More likely, to make sure that everyone else sees that you showed up :).

signed,
another baptist

[PetroniusMaximus]

***one should never go into an exorcism not in a state of Grace (confession and Mass taking Eucharist THAT day). It seems that the daemons know about unconfessed sins and will use that information to their advantage. And the sins must be confessed to a priest and forgiven within the sacrament.***


||||||||||||||||||


Desdemona, I was present at, and personally have witnessed - with my own eyes - an exorcism performed by an Evangelical minister.

This minister had never confessed his sins to a RCC priest in his life (he confessed them to Jesus in his prayers every day).

Nor had he ever taken part in the RCC Eucharist (though his church did have communion once a month.)

Now this exorcism was a private affair (only 5 people present) but there was a display of demonic "special effects" such as I have never seen before or since. I'm talking about 50 or more roaring and screaming voices pouring out of a young man's wide-open, unmoving mouth.

Now these demons tried to communicate with those present but were commanded to leave in the name of Jesus Christ (by a godly Evangelical minister who spent his whole life in the service of the Lord) - and they LEFT!

I knew this guy before this happened and he was a pain in the neck. I mean he was one of those people you would choose to avoid (thought I had NO IDEA previous to this that he was demonized). I also was able to witness his life for several years after the exorcism and he was a completely changed person, much more humble and kind - and devoted to Christ.



This same minister had performed exorcisms like this on a number of occasions.

Now this is serious stuff. I don't tell you this, Desdemona, to use it as a rhetorical tool, but just to make the point that what you have been taught (i.e. "And the sins must be confessed to a priest and forgiven within the sacrament.") just isn't true.

One thing you said is very true...

"one should never go into an exorcism not in a state of Grace"

But by "state of Grace" I mean "No sin unconfessed to God and repented of".


Apparently God accepts confession of sin directed to Him in prayer (with no assistance by a RCC priest) or this minister, and those in the room with him, would be in a world of hurt because what you said... "It seems that the demons know about unconfessed sins and will use that information to their advantage" is also VERY true.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***I certainly would love to discuss these differences between your faith and that of the Catholic Church.***

I would also be glad to discuss these issues. Freepmail me and we can go from there.

[Diamond]

...William Webster's article you link is, to put it politely, woefully inadequate...

What is indadequate about:
"...pure—perfect—sure—truth—eternal—forever settled in heaven—it sanctifies—it causes spiritual growth—it is God-breathed—it is authoritative—it gives wisdom unto salvation—it makes the simple wise—it is living and active—it is a guide—it is a fire—a hammer—a seed—the sword of the Spirit—it gives the knowledge of God—it is a lamp to our feet—a light to our path—that which produces reverence for God—it heals—makes free—illuminates—produces faith— regenerates—converts the soul—brings conviction of sin—restrains from sin—is spiritual food—is infallible— inerrant—irrevocable—it searches the heart and mind—produces life—defeats Satan—proves truth—refutes error—is holy—equips for every good work—is the Word of the living God ..."(Psa. 119:9-11, 38, 105, 130, 133, 160; Psa. 19:7-11; Psa. 111:7-8; Isa. 40:8; Eph. 5:26; 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Jer. 5:14, 23:29; Matt. 13:18-23; Eph. 6:17; Psa. 107:20; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet. 1:23, 2:2; Acts 20:32; John 8:32, 10:35, 17:17).

If you want to tell me that other things not mentioned therein are mandatory, please give me a list of what they are.

Cordially,

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Plain and simply, it ain't cool and people who don't have good voices don't want to embarass themselves.***

Singing should just be the outward manifestation of being ...

"...filled with the Spirit, ... singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ" - Eph 5

Could it be that many of those who don't want to sing are missing the glad, joyful and thankful heart?