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OP-ED: Europe through American eyes —Hans Bergström
Daily Times ^ | Monday, May 24, 2004 | Hans Bergström

Posted on 05/23/2004 7:14:42 PM PDT by Eurotwit

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1 posted on 05/23/2004 7:14:43 PM PDT by Eurotwit
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To: Eurotwit

Ah, yes, Europe, the failed nation-state.


2 posted on 05/23/2004 7:17:53 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Eurotwit

Socialism Has Killed Europe


3 posted on 05/23/2004 7:17:57 PM PDT by WOSG (Peace through Victory! Iraq victory, W victory, American victory!)
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To: Eurotwit

Thanks - a very interesting article. Just as interesting, though, is that fact that it ran in a Pakistani newspaper and not a European one.


4 posted on 05/23/2004 7:21:43 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Am Yisrael Chai!)
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To: Eurotwit

Actually, this is a summary of how relatively sympathetic, liberal viewers see Europe. The opinions of conservatives would probably be a good deal more brutal.

Europe is decadent, narcissistic, nihilistic, and given over to a suicidal death wish. Europeans are aborting themselves out of existence. Unless things change, which is unlikely, there will be no Europe in 50 years.


5 posted on 05/23/2004 7:27:40 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Eurotwit
I find the article mostly correct. The most wise observation was this: As a European editor wrote apropos the flow of scientists from Europe to America: “What’s most sad is that Europeans still believe that their society represents the epitome of civilisation, while the US is on its way to downfall. What if the reality is the reverse?” Every European should contemplate that possibility, at least for a moment, before resuming their current aversion to all things American.

The key European flaw in my view is arrogance. Even though America is the real superpower, there is an arrogance about the European governing elite (not its peoples and cultures). Europe does indeed represent an apex of civilization, but one that bad leadership (EU-centric sclerotic statists) and poor ideas (socialism) is frittering away. Europe is too arrogant to notice nor correct its key faults.

This was the same error btw of the once great Chinese civilization. In the Ming dynasty, they were so arrogant they decided no other civilization could teach them anything, so they hibernated for 600 years, then woke up to find British guns on the Yalu could beat them to a pulp. Europe wont have so long to see their own fall from grace and power.

6 posted on 05/23/2004 7:27:55 PM PDT by WOSG (Peace through Victory! Iraq victory, W victory, American victory!)
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To: WOSG

Europe's dead, Jim!
7 posted on 05/23/2004 7:31:42 PM PDT by kerryveryscary (When is Bush going to apologize for this tagline?)
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To: anguish; AzSteven; Bartholomew Roberts; bc2; Charles Henrickson; duke_h3; Eurotwit; fdsa2; ...
Hans Bergström, Associate Professor of Political Science at the University of Gothenburg, was formerly Editor-in-chief of "Dagens Nyheter," Sweden’s leading newspaper

Ping to the Swedish Ping List.

8 posted on 05/23/2004 7:33:00 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Keeper of the Swedish Ping List.)
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To: Eurotwit

Europe: An amusement park for rich Americans.

Go soon, before the Louvre is shelled by the reigning Mullahs.


9 posted on 05/23/2004 7:34:49 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Islam: Nothing BEER couldn't cure.)
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To: Eurotwit

And the dominant attitude in FR is gratitude to our ancestors who had the good sense to leave Europe for America. Thank God we're in America. Danken Sie Gott, daß wir in Amerika sind...


10 posted on 05/23/2004 7:49:17 PM PDT by omega4412
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To: Eurotwit
Decadent, nihilistic Marxists incapable of freedom and hell-bent on destroying Western Civilization.

We should have never involved ourselves in WWI and WWII.

We have mistakenly prolonged the existence of a culture that simply does not deserve to exist.

11 posted on 05/23/2004 7:50:47 PM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: Eurotwit

I've been to a few European websites and I'd have to say that 90% of the folks on these websites hate the United States. In fact, on one particular Bulgarian website, I had one fella wish rape and death upon me....and in the next breath, demand that the United States step in and help the five Bulgarian medics who are on death row in Libya.

Of course I was kicked off of this website when I told that Bulgarian idiot what he could do with his threat!


12 posted on 05/23/2004 8:05:12 PM PDT by Arpege92 (There are no more political simpletons in the world today other than European Leftist -Yossi Halevi)
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To: Brad Cloven
Europe: An amusement park for rich Americans.

Soon to be replaced by the exotic ruins of Babylon and the lush rolling hills of northern Iraq.

13 posted on 05/23/2004 8:13:27 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
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To: WOSG
This was the same error btw of the once great Chinese civilization. In the Ming dynasty, they were so arrogant they decided no other civilization could teach them anything, so they hibernated for 600 years, then woke up to find British guns on the Yalu could beat them to a pulp. Europe wont have so long to see their own fall from grace and power.

Actually, and I think this is an important point, the Ming dynasty was destroyed by Manchu barbarians long before the Brits got there. Likewise, I think, Europe faces not some great world power - but a group of barbarians seeing weakness in the form of militant Islam.

China was the most powerful state in the world in the early 1400s, and the explorations by Zheng He were impressive and opened by the option of an Empire of the sort the world would not see until the Spanish Empire of the 1500s.

But as you note they decided they had achieved perfection and had nothing to learn from the outside world. Records of China's explorations were erased, and the great navy destroyed.

China coasted on its previous power and slowly rotted from the inside. A couple of hundred years later a tribe of (basically) Mongols and internal dissention was all it took to leave the once great Empire in ruin.

China would not become a great power again until Mao in the 1950s.
14 posted on 05/23/2004 8:27:48 PM PDT by swilhelm73
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To: AdamSelene235
"We should have never involved ourselves in WWI and WWII.

We have mistakenly prolonged the existence of a culture that simply does not deserve to exist."

Perhaps, but Darwin's "survival-of-the-fittest" will be on display within 20 years in Europe.

It'll make the Middle Age Crusades seem like a...hazing.

15 posted on 05/23/2004 8:36:26 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Cicero
"Europe is decadent, narcissistic, nihilistic, and given over to a suicidal death wish. Europeans are aborting themselves out of existence."

A perfect description of the European mind-set -- and of Liberal America.

16 posted on 05/23/2004 8:41:44 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Eurotwit
Huge topic - let me add my $0.02. I think that one source of the current failure to communicate is that many Americans have not really adjusted their world outlook from the Cold War days, and many Europeans have. What I mean specifically is that although the Soviet Union fell, not a very great deal changed on the ground in the United States, and most Americans still consider themselves the protectors and defenders of a Free World of which Europe is a crucial part.

I get the sense that many Europeans have adjusted to the new realities in a way that was not widely apparent in the United States until recently. Iraq was a very rude shock in this regard, and it is reverberating through the American consciousness in a rather magnified form. When the looming monster - and it really was - of the Soviet Union faded, Europe was left with a world in which only America stood in the way of a return to the good old pre-WWI days of the Great Powers, wherein the futures of entire continents were settled in a London or Paris or Brussels drawing-room over port. The preference within current European intellectual fashion for international negotiation at the UN and within NGOs is, in my opinion, nothing more than an updated version of this nostalgic past, one which is regarded in the United States as purely illusory and self-indulgent. Were the United States to vanish overnight the world would not return to the Habsburgs, the Romanoffs, and the Hohenzollerns, and all the wishful thinking in French academe won't make it so.

Americans, for their part, are less aware than they should be of the caustic effects of a half-century of Soviet propaganda on the collective consciousness of Europe. The generation that is now attempting to lead, both there and here, is one that cut its political teeth on the polarities of the Vietnam era, and if both sides of that struggle are reliving their youths within the current U.S. election cycle, it is much more one-sided in Europe, where the antiwar point of view never really had serious opposition and now is represented by a nearly monolithic print and broadcast journalism. That is one reason why Clinton and Kerry are in such better repute there than Reagan and Bush. But the monolithic nature comes at a cost - were the United States to succeed in Iraq it would not only never be communicated in Europe, it would be actively denied by a generation whose entire political worldview may not allow such a thing to be.

I don't see a cure soon. If there is one it may be that we will have to wait for my terribly polarized generation to fade into senescence, a prospect of some years yet, and for a new one unfettered by the political enthusiasms and illusions of the late Cold War to take the reins.

17 posted on 05/23/2004 8:42:43 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: F16Fighter

I think the Euros are beginning to comprehend just how much crap they've stepped in with their immigration policies, and it appears many have come to the conclusion that it's too late to do anything about it. They'll be dust in around a generation.


18 posted on 05/23/2004 8:44:33 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: AdamSelene235
We should have never involved ourselves in WWI and WWII.

Well, WWI was payback for Lafeyette. We should, however, have not allowed the French to enacted a retributive peace treaty on Germany. But, hind sight is 20/20 and who could have known the French would be so cowardly when the NAZIs rose up?

As for WWII, we had no choice. Japan attacked us, and Germany declared war on us.

However, we should have worked to restrain the French after the war. Specifically, we should have stripped the French of their empire for their collaboration with the NAZIs. Either give French claims to the Brits or give them independent American protectorate status.

Again though, how could anyone have known the French would help create communist rebels in their colonies, and then be unable to deal with them?
19 posted on 05/23/2004 8:49:37 PM PDT by swilhelm73
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To: Eurotwit
Eurotwit,

Good article!
Thank you for posting it.
I think it is a more accurate and just generalization on Europe than any I've seen by Euros in reverse.
We should never forget that - at their very best - the left looks to Western Europe as the model for what they want for us here (at their worse it more like Cuba,or Nicaragua under the Sandinistas). With the creeping tide of
anti-religious sentiments breaking out in France, Germany, and Euro(ized) Canada over charges that the Bible is a source of "Hate Speech" and the Cross, and Star of David threaten social harmony when worn by students, there is much to fear from this "fatal attraction" of the Dems for Europe.

Be Well!

Dim1

20 posted on 05/23/2004 8:55:04 PM PDT by DIM1
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