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Before the "I told you so's" start: The goal was to split the rebels and locals so that the about 300 remaining Syrians and old school mujahadeen can be killed, and secondly, to get the locals to not fight in the future beyond what police and ICDC can handle.

Attacking Al Jawlan/Fallujah was the first tactic and was about 70% successful. Bribing/hiring Latif and the ICDC deserters got us another roughly 20%. It's always cheaper to bribe all of them than to use up our Marines to kill some of them. We are watching but not manning, in force, the rebel perimeter in Al-Jawlan. The remaining rebels could drop their heavy weapons and escape past the Falluja Brigade cordon, but the twist is that they won't go. The Marines knew this and pulled out, no point staying, and the the Falluja Brigade was willing to try.

As predicted by some, now that the Brigade has 900 new pairs of boots and some money, they don't want to push it. Their refusal of Kevlar vests and helmets, early on, I think was a predictor of this. But at least they're not fighting us openly. Yes, we gave them AK's, but the Marines control the ammo.

The last 10% is tricky, Latif and the locals are clever and shifty, they don't care if we crater Al-Jawlan, they know we have $80 million to put in their pockets to rebuild it. The price of asphalt went up times 6 last week, every local smells money. Next, the rebels want to be the immortal heroes of Islam and won't run away. Latif and his money grubbers agree with them! The Marines are trying to solve this puzzle and they will, but there are no manuals on how to saddle a cat.

1 posted on 05/15/2004 11:04:59 AM PDT by gandalftb
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To: gandalftb

First there were sadr folks in Falluja, then we sent in Saddams ex soldiers under the command of saddams general now we have them all in the same town DESTROY IT AND THEM.


2 posted on 05/15/2004 11:10:12 AM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I aint wrong, I aint sorry , and I am probably going to do it again.)
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To: gandalftb

I told ya so... ;-)


3 posted on 05/15/2004 11:10:38 AM PDT by Ben Chad
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To: gandalftb
... there are no manuals on how to saddle a cat.

LOL!

We clearly let up on Fallujah just as victory seemed to be at hand. At least on the surface, it seems we could have finished the job relatively easily ourselves, so why did we suddenly bring in a bunch of unproven Iraqis?

Perhaps we knew something that precluded finishing the job (heavily mined defenses assuring very high civilian casualties, WMD booby traps, whatever). Or perhaps we decided the time was not right for some other reason.

The most commonly given reason is that we bowed to political pressure from the Iraqis. However, a different explanation is possible. Perhaps we decided Al Sadr had to be dead or defanged first, thus reducing the "outrage" factor in other parts of Iraq when the job is finished in Fallujah.

If that is the underlying reason, it may succeed on the Al Sadr side, but still fail in Fallujah. Latif would not follow orders to withdraw, and getting him and his "troops" out of the way could be tricky.

8 posted on 05/15/2004 11:23:20 AM PDT by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever. Including their vassal nations.)
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To: gandalftb

Is the policy we have adopted in Falluja the start of about the same policy as we have adopted in Kosovo and Afghanistan? Surrender most of the countryside to warlords and crime factions. Hold up in fortified bases- and prop up a "democratic government" that barely has authority within it's own capital city?


9 posted on 05/15/2004 11:28:37 AM PDT by Burkeman1 ("I said the government can't help you. I didn't say it couldn't hurt you." Chief Wiggam)
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To: gandalftb
"Before the "I told you so's" start: The goal was to split the rebels and locals so that the about 300 remaining Syrians and old school mujahadeen can be killed, and secondly, to get the locals to not fight in the future beyond what police and ICDC can handle."

You’re putting the absolute best face that can be put on this pig.

You affiliated with the RNC? [smile] The goal a year ago was to defeat Iraqi/foreign insurgent resistance prior to rebuilding. We quit. Election’s coming up. Killing 100s or 1000s of Iraqis now will upset the country for several more months. Might require more troops.

Good Morning Vietnam. This is Bush’s “read my lips”, military commanders decide how to fight. BS!

He lost confidence in victory and compromised. Just like with his China appology, tax cuts, education reform, farm aid and steel tariffs. But what the hell do I know. I thought the Senate failure to prosecute Clinton after impeachment would lose us that election. Bush managed to squeak it out nevertheless. I’ll still vote for him. Anything else would be suicide.

As Falluja goes, so goes central Iraq, as central Iraq goes, so goes the nation, " - Colonel John Coleman, chief of staff of 1st Marine Expeditionary Force (before the cease fire)”

16 posted on 05/15/2004 12:01:02 PM PDT by elfman2
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To: gandalftb
"Attacking Al Jawlan/Fallujah was the first tactic and was about 70% successful"

Yes, indeed. This is part of the propaganda war, leveraging the threat of a return of the Ba'athists to frighten the sh*t out of the Shiites, who have been brutalized by them for decades.

Few people in America noticed when, between news cycles, a six hour bombardment proceeded our "withdrawl."

Interesting how, after that bombardment, attacks on our convoys stopped and the daily death count among our troops dropped to zero.

The special Ops guys and Marines who had carefully scouted the town for more than a week and a half located the right targets for that daisy cutters, I guess.

Don't let anyone tell you any of those who died in preparation for the pacification of Falluja, died in vain.

Pity we can't brag about our having won the Battle of Falluja. Most of those who sought to kill us are taking a well-deserved dirt nap.

In the course of History, that story will be told. Meanwhile, we must continue to the next goal, the pacification of Najif and Karbala.

Look for that victory to be just as sudden, and by all appearances, just as mysterious.

"All War is based on deception." - Sun Tzu

18 posted on 05/15/2004 12:13:32 PM PDT by Prospero (Ad Astra!)
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To: gandalftb

"The last 10% is tricky, Latif and the locals are clever and shifty, they don't care if we crater Al-Jawlan, they know we have $80 million to put in their pockets to rebuild it."

Here is the other interesting tidbit: That part of town is the poorest section of town, with narrow streets, a nightmare to go through in a storm operation.

It is also the *kurdish* section. The insurgents went in and abused the kurdish locals.

We could perhaps see how it goes and try to replace Latif if he is not fully cooperative, while not 'breaking' the whole agreement.

On balance, even with the heavy weapons not turned in, this is more successful than unsuccessful. The 'resistance' is not resisting.


24 posted on 05/15/2004 12:32:22 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
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To: gandalftb
I wonder if the Marines are simply waiting for the reorganization to settle out:

Belmont Club ~~The Rumsfeld-Myers Mission

_________________________________________________________________________________________

WASHINGTON, May 14, 2004 – Two new military commands will stand up in Iraq May 15, replacing the current coalition military organization.

Multinational Corps Iraq and Multinational Force Iraq will replace Combined Joint Task Force 7.

Coalition military spokesman Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, at a Baghdad news conference today, said the change addresses a concern that a combined joint task force headquarters was not sufficient to handle the military workload in Iraq efficiently.

"It's certainly more than a formality," he said. "It is trying to get the proper command structure for the days, weeks and months ahead."

Kimmitt explained that Multinational Corps Iraq will focus on the tactical fight -- the day-to-day military operations and the maneuvering of the six multinational divisions on the ground. Army Lt. Gen. Thomas F. Metz will command the corps. Meanwhile, Multinational Force Iraq will focus on more strategic aspects of the military presence in Iraq, such as talking with sheiks and political leaders, and on training, equipping and fielding Iraqi security forces.

Multinational Force Iraq "will certainly be involved in the tactical operations, but only to the extent that they have somewhat of an operational and strategic impact on this country," Kimmitt said. Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, current CJTF 7 commander who will head MNF Iraq, already has been working the strategic issues, and the new command structure will enable him to focus more of his time and energy in that direction, Kimmitt said.

_________________________________________________________

And note this from "Wretched" :

The most striking thing about this new command arrangement is that appears to be an end run around the Coalition Provisional Authority, a shifting of at least some political functions away from a State Department structure directly into one directly under the DOD. For those who saw the events in April as a defeat for Rummy and a discredit to the DOD policy, this evidence suggests that the President may see things the other way. At first glance it is a high level endorsement of the kinds of negotiations which have transpired at Fallujah at Najaf rather than their condemnation. This reading may not be borne out by subsequent clarifications. But it certainly looks that way.

35 posted on 05/15/2004 12:55:04 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: gandalftb
I wonder if the general in charge of all of this is aware that his decisions will determine whether his Commander in Chief is Bush or Kerry?
41 posted on 05/15/2004 1:11:21 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
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To: gandalftb

Watched Geronimo last night..reflecting..
from the skills of the Apache scouts who assayed Power and went over to the U.S. Calvary,
Too the craft of the Apache when the war dance had finished.

Thinking..."Ya..thats exactly what those schemers in Iraq need,
A U.S. Division of Full blooded Apache's on them...

And..as Robert Duvall [Al Seiber] in the movie comments,

"You get into a fight with the Apache......you save the last bullet for yourself"

52 posted on 05/15/2004 3:47:52 PM PDT by Light Speed
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