Rumsfeld Apology Fails to Calm Arab Anger [warning: graphic photos]

DUBAI (Reuters) - His apology was late and the damage done, said Arab and European commentators on Saturday, reacting to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

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"While he (Rumsfeld) has been in charge, murder, torture and humiliation were heaped on Iraqi detainees almost as a matter of course," the Saudi daily Arab News commented.

"Rumsfeld's apology came too late," said Jordanian analyst Hani Hourani. "I believe Rumsfeld should resign because the torture reflected a widespread policy adopted by the U.S. army in Iraq (news - web sites) and maybe Afghanistan (news - web sites) as well."

Rumsfeld took responsibility on Friday for abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops and offered his "deepest apology" to victims during U.S. Senate hearings broadcast live in the Arab world as well as the United States.

Reinhard Buetikofer, chairman of Germany's Green Party, a junior partner in the government, said: "The minister who is responsible for such things must resign: Mr. Rumsfeld."

These guys were not being tortured or humiliated in an effort to obtain information, but were being treated in a manner to bemuse the MPs watching over them.

How do you know?

How do you know what they were being held for?

Have you seen a roster of names or something?

How do you know this happened to everyone?? How are you so sure this isnt just a small few among the prisoners?

If there are thousands of prisoners, HOW IN THE WORLD can guards that are outnumbered 5 to 1 have the time to do this to everyone of them??

You dont love the man who is trying to kill you, you kill him first. Loving an enemy does not include letting him kill you to prove it.

Oh? Where is that supported in scripture?

Let's face it, we are in a war of religion. No ideas, not ideology, not of borders ( well we haven't proven Iraq's complicity in the 9-11 attacks so I guess we did cross their borders).

Had those detainees been US soldiers rather than Iraqi and the photos been released we would have heard how horrible these photos were. Had this been a Gore administration we would have heard how this was an administration that didn't know how to properly use the military and that discipline had melted away.

I've always believed you were a man of faith. Yet your solutions are solutions of man, not of God. You don't believe your prayers will be answered unless you or our government through our military intercede. If desired, God in a twinkle of an eye could wipe out the entire country of Iraq or change the hearts of the inhabitants of that country. Why isn't it being done? Not enough faith or prayer on our behalf? Too much intercession by us? Explain it to me.

(Gen 14:8 KJV) And there went out the king of Sodom, and the king of Gomorrah, and the king of Admah, and the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar;) and they joined battle with them in the vale of Siddim;

(Gen 14:9 KJV) With Chedorlaomer the king of Elam, and with Tidal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with five.

(Gen 14:10 KJV) And the vale of Siddim was full of slimepits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, and fell there; and they that remained fled to the mountain.

(Gen 14:11 KJV) And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way.

(Gen 14:12 KJV) And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

(Gen 14:13 KJV) And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

(Gen 14:14 KJV) And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

(Gen 14:15 KJV)And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.

(Gen 14:16 KJV) And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

(Gen 14:17 KJV) And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.

(Gen 14:18 KJV) And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

(Gen 14:19 KJV) And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

(Gen 14:20 KJV) And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Any word there about Abram holding a prayer meeting?

No, he went to WAR.

Notice also, that Melchizedek didn't rebuke Abram, he BLESSED him for what he did. (Eccl 3:8 KJV) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

How do you know the intercession by our military isn't the working of God? How do you know what we are doing in Iraq isn't an answer to prayer? Do you actually believe anything can happen outside of God's control?

If desired, God in a twinkle of an eye could wipe out the entire country of Iraq or change the hearts of the inhabitants of that country. Why isn't it being done? Not enough faith or prayer on our behalf? Too much intercession by us? Explain it to me.

Because the world moves according to God's plan, not ours. Perhaps God doesn't want their hearts changed, did you think about that? Read the OT account of Moses and Pharoah, and how often it says "But God hardened his/pharoah's heart".

Self-defense is quite scriptural. The Book of Esther is most definitely an example of this as does Nehemiah 4:

Nehemiah 4
6 So we built the wall, and the entire wall was joined together up to half its height, for the people had a mind to work.
7 Now it happened, when Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites heard that the walls of Jerusalem were being restored and the gaps were beginning to be closed, that they became very angry,
8 and all of them conspired together to come and attack Jerusalem and create confusion.
9 Nevertheless we made our prayer to our God, and because of them we set a watch against them day and night.
10 Then Judah said, "The strength of the laborers is failing, and there is so much rubbish that we are not able to build the wall."
11 And our adversaries said, "They will neither know nor see anything, till we come into their midst and kill them and cause the work to cease."
12 So it was, when the Jews who dwelt near them came, that they told us ten times, "From whatever place you turn, they will be upon us."
13 Therefore I positioned men behind the lower parts of the wall, at the openings; and I set the people according to their families, with their swords, their spears, and their bows.
14 And I looked, and arose and said to the nobles, to the leaders, and to the rest of the people, "Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, great and awesome, and fight for your brethren, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses."
15 And it happened, when our enemies heard that it was known to us, and that God had brought their plot to nothing, that all of us returned to the wall, everyone to his work.
16 So it was, from that time on, that half of my servants worked at construction, while the other half held the spears, the shields, the bows, and wore armor; and the leaders were behind all the house of Judah.
17 Those who built on the wall, and those who carried burdens, loaded themselves so that with one hand they worked at construction, and with the other held a weapon. 18 Every one of the builders had his sword girded at his side as he built.

Because the world moves according to God's plan, not ours.

So do we know this is God's plan or is his plan something different? I've asked this in prayer and haven't received an answer.

How do you know the intercession by our military isn't the working of God?

How do we know it is? My guess is God would prefer to see his values obeyed across the globe and thus it is my opinion and faith that we come closer to doing this than does the Arab world. But to my knowledge, He hasn't given anyone clear guideance.

In addition, your account of Pharoh is OT and not how we of the New Testament Church believe God now acts when a man and his soul are concerned.

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