DUBYA'S WING MEN (in case you missed it, he volunteered for Vietnam)

National Review Online ^ | 2-19-04 | Jed Babbin

[USMCVet]

"I guess you never heard of the Buff runs on Hanoi during Linebacker I and II."

So the F-102s were there to intercept B-52s? Not very sporting...

I reiterate: the F-102s didn't have any place to hang bombs, no gun, and the NVA didn't have TU-95s. So what earthly use would we have had for F-102s? They would have just used up the fuel and revetment space we needed for real warfighters.

[USMCVet]

Real men didn't look at their draft number. Real men signed up for the big stuff back then: we had a war on.

I save all my admiration for those guys - particularly the platoon commanders, squad leaders, company commanders, etc. that picked the small shrapnel out themselves, applied the first aid cream, and stayed with their men. I admire the F-4 and A-4 drivers that got down on the deck and took hits for us. I admire the medevac pilots that flew to us no matter what to get the wounded out.

I don't waste my time trying to build up George or John.

[EternalHope]

Check your info regarding when the Draft Lottery went into effect..... President Bush had no such number....

Hmmm... I've seen his number posted on FR, along with Kerry's. This is something I'd really like to have an accurate answer to.

I don't know when President Bush signed up for the National Guard, but he is about my age. The lottery for the draft was implemented while I was at the Air Force Academy. I recall the approximate date because my number was in the high 300s, which meant I could have left at the time without getting drafted (I stayed).

Unless memory fails me (quite possible..), the first draft lottery was in December, so that would put it in December 1970.

So... When did President Bush sign up for the National Guard? If it was 1971 or later, then I suspect the FR info was right. If it was 1970 or earlier, then the FR info was probably wrong. Since he is about my age, I suspect the FR info is right, and President Bush DID have a draft lottery number, and it was over 300.

[EternalHope]

Real men didn't look at their draft number. Real men signed up for the big stuff back then: we had a war on.

Does that apply to you, personally? I had a draft number in the high 300s and still signed on. That does not mean I looked down on the people who went Guard instead.

The only people I looked down on, then and now, are the John Kerry's who spit on those of us defending their sorry a$$es.

You are pretty close to claiming moral equivalence between George Bush and Hanoi John. Ain't no way.

[deport]

Just because something is posted on FR doesn't make it accurate or the truth. There are lots of inaccuracies here like most other places...

President Bush graduated from Yale and then enlisted in the Texas Air National Guard on May 28, 1968.... thus he never received a draft lottery number from the initial drawing on Dec. 1, 1969 for implementation on Jan 1, 1970.

[sport]

Bump

[EternalHope]

Thanks for the info.

[nopardons]

bttt

[AndrewC]

If all you know about flying fighters was learned watching Tom Cruise in Top Gun, you can be forgiven for thinking it's nothing but reckless fun, hard drinking, and a steady stream of beautiful girls. (That's only what the jet jocks want you to believe). The reality is that it's a hazardous business that will kill you — long before any enemy gets the chance to — if you aren't up to the job.

That's a fact Jack!!

[snooker]

"Ted Kennedy have one?"

Kennedy fought off a waitress once. Oh wait, he fought over that waitress.

[vaudine]

2 questions--1. The F102's WERE in Vietnam. Are you saying they were not used? Obviously, they weren't very good because they were replaced. Guess they were all that was avail. at the time they were sent.

2. You don't have to build up GWB, but why are you trying to tear him down? This is a comparison of GWB and JF'nK, for heaven's sake.

vaudine

[USMCVet]

"Does that apply to you, personally? I had a draft number in the high 300s and still signed on. "

Answer; Yes. I have no idea what my draft number was - I went downtown and signed up with the Marine Corps for four years and was in Vietnam 6 months later. You and I were a small part of the hundreds of thousands of men that volunteered, knowing full well what we were volunteering for - that we had a good chance of losing our young lives or parts of our bodies in the service of our country.

I still resent the other young men who stayed back, took advantage of all of the fun of being young in the 60s and the left the tough stuff to people like you and I. There was a decidedly non-egalitarian slant to the obligations for that war and 'ol George was one of many that used his family's wealth and position to keep him relatively safe (I will admit that flying an F-102 is not particularly safe - it's just not as useful - or dangerous - as flying an F-4 in country would have been).

George Bush has done well with his life and he's infinitely better that the man that preceded him in the office - but no amount of flack puffery can make him equivalent to the least private who served at Con Thien or Ia Drang or hundreds of nameless places in that war.

[USMCVet]

I haven't found anyone that could explain to me what earthly use an F-102 would have been in Vietnam. I accept that there were a few there (one even crashed) but other than serving as the world's biggest lawn dart, it would have as close to useless as any aircraft could be over there. Maybe somebody was punching tickets..

I'm not "tearing down" GWB; just reacting the piece of political fluff that started this thread. I do not accept the premise that flying F-102s in the States is morally equivalent to serving in combat. It's better than sitting at home in Podunck, it's far better than whiling away the time in Canada, but we had a war going and we could have used all the good men we could find. George stayed here.

I will never support John Kerry because he betrayed all of the good men that fought (after his whole 4 months in combat - real men didn't go home and leave his men after three light scratches) with his "US soldiers are committing atrocities" garbage. He should never have been elected to the US Senate - or dogcatcher -after that slimy act.

[Kozak]

Squadron Service of F-102A

82nd Fighter Interceptor Squadron, Naha AB, Okinawa, 1966 to May 1971. In 1968, deployed F-102As to Bien Hoa AB, Vietnam. Inactivated at Naha May 1971, last PACAF active-duty PACAF squadron.

509th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, Clark AB, Philippines and Tan Son Nhut AB, Vietnam, 1959 to 1970. In 1968, detachments were sent to Da Nang AB and Tan Son Nhut AB in Vietnam and to Don Muang in Thailand. Inactivated July 1970.

Guess someone who knew something about actually flying fighters disagreed with you.

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

Fat Teddy visited ALOHA RONNIE in Viet Nam. AR has a picture of the swimmer in his crisp new jungle outfit a boonie hat. I'm sure that was before he, the drunken letch, killed Mary Jo.

[USMCVet]

"Guess someone who knew something about actually flying fighters disagreed with you."

Well, OK -great: so what did they do with them? Burn JP-2 at 5,000 pounds per hour? Use lots and lots of runway? Look really shiny in a revetment?

Even though there are lots of people smarter than me, I'm willing to listen - what mission would they have had? F-4s, F-105s, F-100s, A-4s, A-7s, A1Es, T-28s, B-52s and A-6s shot guns, rockets and bombed stuff. F-4s and F8s and some others engaged and killed MiGs. Helicopters carried troops and shot things and saved lives.

So what did an F-102 do in the Republic of Vietnam in 1968?

[stocksthatgoup]

1. Kerry had a draft number that guaranteed he would be drafted if he did not volunteer.
In other words, Kerry volunteered to avoid the draft, thus keeping himself from having to sit in a foxhole and/or crawl through the mud.
2. Dubya had a draft number in the 300s. That means he had no chance of being drafted. He joined the Guard ANYWAY
Thank you for this post.......I had a number in the high 300's as well. Dems no doubt would think I won life's lottery.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.


TED KENNEDY -&- ALOHA RONNIE in Vietnam-1965 (See Photo Set #1)

http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm
(Photos)


1 grew
1 didn't

.

[EternalHope]

Check out post 45. My info was from a FR post a week ago or so. The post at #45 corrected me.

(I don't want to spread incorrect info.)

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

Perfect assessment of how two young men traveled.