General: Much Of Iraq's (Military) Forces Have Quit

AP/Yahoo ^ | 4-21-2004 | Connie Cass

[blam]

General: Much of Iraq's Forces Have Quit

By CONNIE CASS, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - About one in every 10 members of Iraq 's security forces "actually worked against" U.S. troops during the recent militia violence in Iraq, and an additional 40 percent walked off the job because of intimidation, the commander of the 1st Armored Division said Wednesday.

In an interview beamed by satellite from Baghdad to news executives attending The Associated Press annual meeting, Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey said the campaign in Iraq was at a critical point.

"We have to get this latest increase in violence under control," Dempsey said. "We have to take a look at the Iraqi security forces and learn why they walked."

The militia violence aggravated underlying troubles in Iraq's new military and police forces — the unfulfilled desire for "some Iraqi hierarchy in which to place their trust and confidence" and a reluctance by Iraqis to take up arms against their countrymen, Dempsey said.

"It's very difficult at times to convince them that Iraqis are killing fellow Iraqis and fellow Muslims, because it's something they shouldn't have to accept," he said. "Over time I think they will probably have to accept it."

The failure of Iraqi security forces to perform is significant because it could hurt the United States' overall exit strategy from Iraq, which is dependent on moving U.S. troops out of the cities and handing authority to Iraqis. Officials have said the U.S. military would delay its withdrawal from parts of Iraq until Iraqi forces were ready to take control.

In one example of the problems, on April 5, a newly created Iraqi army battalion of several hundred soldiers refused to join U.S. Marines in their offensive against insurgents in the city of Fallujah.

Dempsey maintained in the interview that popular support for the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq is still "very solid."

But he acknowledged "a form of descending consent" for the U.S. military presence occurring among Iraqis as time passes.

"There is a point where it doesn't matter how well we're doing, it won't be accepted that we have a large military presence here," he said. "We're all working very diligently trying to figure out where that point is."

Dempsey was asked about the remarks of two other U.S. commanders who questioned the wisdom of banning former Baath Party members from government jobs when their skills are needed in the reconstruction effort.

"History is going to have to decide whether that was right or not," he said.

Dempsey recalled receiving a warning from Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah that the coalition forces would find it tough to bring order to Iraq after dissolving the country's only two powerful institutions — the army and the Baath Party.

"So part of me says our jobs may have been easier had we just found a way to keep some of the Baath Party in place," Dempsey said, echoing comments by Maj. Gen. John R.S. Batiste and Brig. Gen. Carter F. Ham published in The New York Times on Wednesday.

But Dempsey added: "On the other hand, the entire part of the population that was disenfranchised during these 35 years, largely the Shiite population, absolutely has no trust in any former member of the Baath Party. So we found ourselves exactly in the middle of this."

On the security forces, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said he is sending Maj. Gen. David Petraeus back to Iraq to oversee the training and equipping of all Iraqi security forces, including those who had been the responsibility of the State Department or the Coalition Provisional Authority.

Dempsey said efforts are under way to ensure Iraqi security forces that there will be Iraqi authorities in place to back them up after U.S. troops leave.

During the recent militia attacks, "about 50 percent of the security forces that we've built over the past year stood tall and stood firm," he said.

"About 40 percent walked off the job because they were intimidated. And about 10 percent actually worked against us," said Dempsey, describing that group as infiltrators.

Dempsey commands the Army division in charge of Baghdad. He has been in Iraq for more than a year, focusing on intelligence gathering and combatting terrorism as he works to help Iraqi security forces take over those tasks.

[sanjacjake]

I get peeved by the Iraq doomsday dillies in the press
and on TV....In the 2nd WWar...these people would have had
heart attacks or worse...DDay..troops are slaughtered...let's find out who ordered this fiasco...
can't we take a poll before we send our troops into battle?
The ships are out to sea too long, sailors are getting
brain dead and waterlogged....on and on..since I was out there, I missed it back home, but the nation was all for
the troops and the press knew it....these Hardball, nutball
and libballs all need to find out what freedom is and what
it means...troops and patriots know..how about you?? Jake

[McGavin999]

During the recent militia attacks, "about 50 percent of the security forces that we've built over the past year stood tall and stood firm," he said.

This is the core of the new officer corps.

"About 40 percent walked off the job because they were intimidated. And about 10 percent actually worked against us," said Dempsey, describing that group as infiltrators.

The 40% who were intimidated should be given another chance. They were intimidated due to lack of experience, lack of leadership, and lack of equipment. The 10% who worked against us should be put in jail.

[RetiredArmy]

Geeze. These guys sound like some of the ARVN troops of South Vietnam.

[WOSG]

For a second I thought this was a report from a year ago during the war, then I realized ...

[KellyAdmirer]

So Iraqis make lousy soldiers and tend to walk off the job, as they did under Saddam. Doesn't sound too surprising to me. Did anyone think that just because they were in Coalition employ that they would suddenly become good soldiers? I sure didn't.

[Nachum]

A pity you did not include the other part of this thought...

But Dempsey added: "On the other hand, the entire part of the population that was disenfranchised during these 35 years, largely the Shiite population, absolutely has no trust in any former member of the Baath Party. So we found ourselves exactly in the middle of this."

As you were saying?

[Shazolene]

Swarthy, you have it exactly WRONG. Putting the Baathists back in charge would have put the US on the wrong side of the fight for Iraq, put the bad guys in positions of authority to abuse Iraquis again, and once again betrayed every Iraqui who trusted us.

McGavin, you have it exactly right. The 50% who stood firm should be the core of the new officer corps. The 40% who walked off the job because they were intimidated (due to lack of experience, lack of leadership, and lack of equipment) should be given another chance. And the 10% who actually worked against us should be put in jail (or executed).

[dirtbiker]

The terrorists will threaten the voters in January like in Spain and they'll win like in Spain.

You forget ONE small detail...THIS AIN'T SPAIN!!! Lurch is not boing to be the 44th president of these United States......

[dirtbiker]

The terrorists will threaten the voters in January like in Spain and they'll win like in Spain.

You forget ONE small detail...THIS AIN'T SPAIN!!! Lurch is not going to be the 44th president of these United States......

[Robert_Paulson2]

"about 50 percent of the security forces that we've built over the past year stood tall and stood firm," he said.

---

it is of note that some historians report that support for the war of independence from King George, had the active support of under 40 percent of the citizenry of these united states, united.

50 percent if a real number... is pretty damned impressive.

[John Lenin]

Blow up that nuke reactor in Iran and be done with it.

[Plutarch]

When all else fails, read the directions.

Marines Rediscover a 1940s Manual

Wall Street Journal
April 8, 2004

… In Afghanistan, Army Lt. Col. Raymond Millen, who helped write training guidelines for U.S. troops working with the new Afghan National Army, spotted the manual on a colleague's bookshelf. For him the sections on building local constabularies proved prescient. In both Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. efforts to build native armies were plagued by desertions. Recruits complained of poor pay and lousy equipment. At first, U.S. officers worried about the message they'd be sending if they paid young soldiers more than most Iraqis and Afghanis earn.

Eventually, the U.S. raised salaries. But had U.S. officers studied the "Small Wars Manual" earlier, some missteps might have been avoided. "In establishing an organization of native troops, attempts should be made to provide better clothing and shelter and food than native civilians of the same social class. This is ... an important morale factor," the book notes.

[swarthyguy]

Let's see what happens, then.

As it is, our pandering to the Shias has led to a increased role for religious restrictions a la a theocracy.

We're letting down the modernists and progressive secularists if we continue down this path that'll lead to a virtual theocratic state.

The Baathis are the technocrats and the organizers. That's what the US needs now, not a bunch of mullahs.

[GraniteStateConservative]

You forgot one detail. We aren't running Iraq after June 30th and definitely not after they have an elected government in January. They will be totally sovereign in January. If the elected leaders want us out, we have to leave-- and the candidates will likely run on that platform and be elected on that platform.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Vinnell did not cover themselves with glory training the ICDC

[Tennessean4Bush]

Hey, based upon historical data this is a much better performance than Saddam's troops. Only 50% deserted or gave aid to the enemy.

Funny...and absolutely true!

[TomasUSMC]

The 50 percent that did not run or turn against US. I bet they were up there in the north were there was no fighting.

If we could get better statistics we might find that 90 percent of those who had to fight, did not, and 90 percent of those that did not have to fight - did not.

[PJ-Comix]

Muuuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........Liiiiimmmmmmmzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[whd23]

Is this a surprise to ANYONE? Arab culture produces loud-mouth, easily-offended, yet cowardly men. If you're going into battle against women and children, the arabs would make a fine army. Otherwise, they're just a bunch of bed-wetting, surrendering-to-UAVs, useless turds.

Other than that, I have no opinion on the matter...

[Jim Noble]

These savages are going to put Saddam back in power if we don't kill him first.