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To: Arthur McGowan
In fact it is not as simple as that. Let us look at the record:
 
Ok... Let's do that very thing.....
 

 
 
Psalms 22:14-19
 14.  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me.
 15.  My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me  in the dust of death.
 16.  Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced  my hands and my feet.
 17.  I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me.
 18.  They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
 19.  But you, O LORD, be not far off; O my Strength, come quickly to help me.
 
Isaiah 53
 1.  Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
 2.  He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 
 3.  He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
 4.  Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
 5.  But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
 6.  We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
 7.  He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
 8.  By oppression  and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
 9.  He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
 10.  Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes  his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
 11.  After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light [of life]  and be satisfied ; by his knowledge  my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
 12.  Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
Zechariah 12:10
  "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit  of grace and supplication. They will look on  me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
 
John 19:33-34
 33.  But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
 34.  Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
 
John 19:33-37
 33.  But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
 34.  Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
 35.  The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
 36.  These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"
 37.  and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced."
 
Revelation 1:7
  Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.  So shall it be! Amen.
 

 Who are "they"?
 
Who are "those"?
 
Who is "our"?

Acts 3:12-18
 12.  When Peter saw this, he said to them: "Men of Israel, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?
 13.  The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.
 14.  You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you.
 15.  You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
 16.  By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.
 17.  "Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders.
 18.  But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer.

 

Acts 5:27-33
 27.  Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest.
 28.  "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."
 29.  Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
 30.  The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.
 31.  God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
 32.  We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
 33.  When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death  (*)

 

Acts 7:51-60
 51.  "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
 52.  Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him--
 53.  You who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."
 54.  When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him.
 55.  But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
 56.  "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
 57.  At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him,
 58.  dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
 59.  While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
 60.  Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.   (*)

 

Acts 9:22-24
 22.  Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Christ.
 23.  After many days had gone by, the Jews conspired to kill him,
 24.  but Saul learned of their plan. Day and night they kept close watch on the city gates in order to kill him(*)

 

Acts 9:29
 He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him. (*)

 

Acts 10:34-40
 34.  Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
 35.  but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.
 36.  You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
 37.  You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached--
 38.  how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. 
 39.  "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,
 40.  but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

 

Acts 23:6-14
 6.  Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."
 7.  When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided.
 8.  (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)
 9.  There was a great uproar, and some of the teachers of the law who were Pharisees stood up and argued vigorously. "We find nothing wrong with this man," they said. "What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"
 10.  The dispute became so violent that the commander was afraid Paul would be torn to pieces by them. He ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force and bring him into the barracks.
 11.  The following night the Lord stood near Paul and said, "Take courage! As you have testified about me in Jerusalem, so you must also testify in Rome."
 12.  The next morning the Jews formed a conspiracy and bound themselves with an oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul.
 13.  More than forty men were involved in this plot.
 14.  They went to the chief priests and elders and said, "We have taken a solemn oath not to eat anything until we have killed Paul.
15.  Now then, you and the Sanhedrin petition the commander to bring him before you on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about his case. We are ready to kill him before he gets here."
 16.  But when the son of Paul's sister heard of this plot, he went into the barracks and told Paul.
 17.  Then Paul called one of the centurions and said, "Take this young man to the commander; he has something to tell him."
 18.  So he took him to the commander.   The centurion said, "Paul, the prisoner, sent for me and asked me to bring this young man to you because he has something to tell you."
 19.  The commander took the young man by the hand, drew him aside and asked, "What is it you want to tell me?"
 20.  He said: "The Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul before the Sanhedrin tomorrow on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about him.
 21.  Don't give in to them, because more than forty of them are waiting in ambush for him. They have taken an oath not to eat or drink until they have killed him. They are ready now, waiting for your consent to their request." (*)

 

Acts 25:1-3
 1.  Three days after arriving in the province, Festus went up from Caesarea to Jerusalem,
 2.  where the chief priests and Jewish leaders appeared before him and presented the charges against Paul.
 3.  They urgently requested Festus, as a favor to them, to have Paul transferred to Jerusalem, for they were preparing an ambush to kill him along the way. (*)

 

Acts 25:10-11
10.  Paul answered: "I am now standing before Caesar's court, where I ought to be tried. I have not done any wrong to the Jews, as you yourself know very well.
 11.  If, however, I am guilty of doing anything deserving death, I do not refuse to die. But if the charges brought against me by these Jews are not true, no one has the right to hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar!"  (*)

 

Acts 26:21
 That is why the Jews seized me in the temple courts and tried to kill me. (*)

 

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
 14.  For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
 15.  who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men
 16.  in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.


(*Why kill Paul??  He sure wasn't the one to which the 'people' looked to to 'overthrow' Rome...)


17 posted on 04/07/2004 12:27:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Truth is violated by falsehood, but it is outraged by silence.)
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To: Elsie
First of all: Translations of the Scripture are for the convenience of the general population. No one should ever attempt to use Scripture to establish a theological point unless he has the ORIGINAL TEXT to work with. Millions of people have been led astray by peculiar turns of phrase in one or another TRANSLATION of Scripture.

Second: It is absolutely necessary to distinguish "the Jews" who directly participated in the death of Jesus, "the Jews" who lived in Jerusalem at the time, and "the Jews" who are alive today. The failure to make this distinction, and to read Scripture with this distinction in mind, is both stupid and wicked.

18 posted on 04/08/2004 11:45:09 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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