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To: spetznaz
There is nothing off the shelf about the F22's software. Custom one of a kind hardware, and custom routines to control every aspect of the plane.

I work for a company that is doing many research projects for nasa and the military, some really cutting edge stuff... and stuff that will save lives.

The F22 software is what I would call evolutionary obsolete. Meaning that it has evolved over time, while requirements continually changed for it... leaving a hodge podge of kludgy code, none of it designed or architected from the top... and what is not running is nothing like anything that has been designed in the grand scheme.

THe original coders are likely long gone, new code is being hooked into old code that no one understands, new requirements and features require even more code to be put on top of that... etc etc etc...

What needs to be done is a complete rearchitecture and rewrite of the entire system. A costly undertaking that RARELY happens to software once it is in a production environment. At least based on the story as told in this article.
5 posted on 04/02/2004 8:56:59 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay
What needs to be done is a complete rearchitecture and rewrite of the entire system. A costly undertaking that RARELY happens to software once it is in a production environment.

Indeed, if you're going to rewrite that much code from the ground up, I, personally, would want to carefully consider the hardware components, too, in order to look for interactions and common interface requirements. (That's off the top of my head)

Translation: Scrap the whole project and start again.

8 posted on 04/02/2004 9:07:23 PM PST by irv
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To: HamiltonJay
I must admit that I am fairley ignorant as info goes on code writting process.
However...am aware from other science applications..especially the field of Feild/Harmonics..shielding to contain energy..where the threshold is processor speed and tasking reaction code/software..as they try..and try is the key here..for the processor speeds needed are phenominal to keep feild harmonics from collapsing..
in this field of endeavour..they are achieving amazing things with computers.
if a system is to be productive for the future..and flexible to the new abilities that are soon to come...ie..Mag rail launch...Scramjet engines..etc.
then it makes sense to go for code writers who are working with these new technologies..and dump the old ways.
I imagine DARPA...JPL/NASA are the guys to get on the team..allong with the techs who are writing code for these new science systems.
raise the bar..put something in that aircraft that will make it workable for future mods ...tasking...and interface
34 posted on 04/02/2004 11:18:20 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: HamiltonJay
A costly undertaking that RARELY happens to software once it is in a production environment.

One small example. If you have a mortgage, the software that keeps track of your payments and calculates your escrow was first written around 1970, and has only been "maintained" since then. Every company that has tried to compete with this mainframe system has folded or been absorbed.

53 posted on 04/03/2004 4:58:35 AM PST by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: HamiltonJay
I think that everytime there is a hardware change, the modification of the code becomes even more complex. It is not like change a module and run with it. All 2million lines have to be reworked and retested.

The evolution becomes even more complex. Pristine code no longer is pristine. One new line effects thousands of lines of code.

An example would be, if a module was updated for wind lets say, it would impact fuel flow and god knows how many other variables. Let's say that you miss a speed to weight ratio while updating. Missing one variable now can have a major impact three revisions down the road.

Think this is probably what happened.

In my company this happened with a distrubition package we were writing. Someone forgot about the size of the truck and the capacity it could hold. No one took this into account. When new trucks were purchased, they purchased smaller trucks. Guess what? They needed more deliveries to distribute goods. And they then wondered why the costs escalated. They wound up laying off people. Was sad actually.

Funny thing about it though. A year later the owner thought something was up and called the feds. Turns out the union asked for the smaller vehicles. The union leadership was in bed with a truck dealership. The programmers brother in law was the union head.

Both are now in jail for fraud. I love happy endings.





64 posted on 04/03/2004 6:47:54 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz
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To: HamiltonJay
THe original coders are likely long gone, new code is being hooked into old code that no one understands, new requirements and features require even more code to be put on top of that... etc etc etc...

Sort of like what goes on at the IRS.

Sorry I could not help myself. ;P

80 posted on 04/03/2004 4:16:15 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup (The Motto: 'Live and let live' is a suicidal belief...)
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To: HamiltonJay
What needs to be done is a complete rearchitecture and rewrite of the entire system. A costly undertaking that RARELY happens to software once it is in a production environment. At least based on the story as told in this article.

While the software goes through this "complete rearchitecture", is the hardware supposed to stand in place - with technologies that are continually becoming obsolete?

By the way, I was the "hardware design manager" for a major electronics system for the F-22 before I retired in 1991. Although I wasn't involved directly in the software, I could see that ADA was a coming disaster.

82 posted on 04/03/2004 5:02:22 PM PST by jackbill
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