Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Does anyone know how far off the coast the US extends its control?

12 nautical miles as I recall. That's why the USSR used to park their 'fishing trawlers' - spy ships- just outside the 12 mile mark offshore of Cape canaveral to observe our rocket launches.

The distance is even less in areas of "tight navigation" we split with other nations like Canada. This is because in waters less than 24 miles in width, nations on either side of the waters have to split the diff since both cannot have the limit of 12. It also depends on navigation; nations don't have the right to interfere with freedom of navigation, say in straights where if one nation hogged it all, others nations' vessels would not be able to pass and could have their trade choked off.

In addition to tightly controlled territorial waters, nations also may extend their economic exclusion zones up to 200 nautical miles, provided there is no neighboring nations' with territorial or exclusion zones of their own and no restricted trade routes; they do not have the same level of control in these areas as China desires, nor as much as in the narrower territorial waters. In econnomic eclusion zones nations cannot 'control' the zone by hindering the passage of vessels or aircraft whether military or civilian- they can only bar vessels from extracting resources , such as fish or oil, at least in quantities larger than for mere research.

Nations cannot bar warships, cruise ships, tankers, transports, aircraft, etc from transiting their economic exclusion zone.

Assuming it is the same, it is hard to complain.

The US is objecting because China has been grabbing uninhabited or seasonally inhabited islands belonging to other nations so as to gain an additional 12 mile territorial water around the island. China has grabbed reefs and shoals from other countries, even ones which aren't even remotely 'dry land' and built faclities on them for occupancy so as to keep them from being retaken. They then try to claim extra territory around them for their exclusive use, and usually succeed since they arm their island-scouts. If China were also allowed to take an additonal 200 zone from those 'shores' even a small submerged pinpoint reef would gain a cricle of territory 400 miles in diameter. If those areas contain oil and teeming stocks of fish, that's a huge economic theft for the small price of using a few men to steal a few feet of coral.

The Chinese are moving with a great deal of determination towards the Philippines' territory with little island hops like this. And Taiwan's territory as well. china wants to extend its control so as to prevent Taiwan from being able to defend itself- to bar US warships from aiding it.

I don't think the US would be so permissive of unwanted Chinese vessels in its area of control.

Then you would be wrong. Chinese vessels can transit our economic exclusion zone at any time. They don't have a comparable bluewater navy, but if they did, they could transit the same waters we do around the globe and even enter our EEC. Russia passes through these waters, and still does, warships and bombers included. Things only get dicey within the twelve mile territorial waters boundary.

We've been much more tolerant of those kinds of intrusions than the Chinese would be. We've had Russian bombers over our land and didn't blow them out of the sky. We've had Russian fighter planes have to make emergency landings here. They did so, we gave their pilots coffee and help, and saw them off without delay, and during the Cold War at that. We get our EP-3 rammed by hotdog Chinees fighter pilots and it wasn't even close to their 12 mile territorial waters. Go figure.

I am not necessarily supporting what China does, but a nation's sovereignty in certain aspects is just that.

The violator of sovereignity in this case is China, so it can reach out to swipe islands and reefs. This is above all a freedom of navigation issue. Without freedom of navigation, no nation can be sovereign. It would instead be blackmailed and controlled by those nations blocking its essential navigable waters and trade routes.

In terms of human rights China should be condemned, but a desire to secure their coasts is understandable.

They have no more a right to secure their coasts than any other nation- their coasts are as secure as ours. They should abide by the 12 mile standard instead of trying to get exceptions, and respect the sovereignity of others.

9 posted on 04/02/2004 2:42:19 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]


There is no moral equivalency between nations by the way. The US keeps the seas free for all, while China seeks to deny use of a very large and important body of water and aggressively threatens Taiwan almost routinely.

Even though in this case we are being fair, we don't have to be fair to evil.

10 posted on 04/02/2004 2:55:29 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]

To: piasa
Thank you!
18 posted on 04/02/2004 3:40:58 AM PST by CasearianDaoist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]

To: piasa
Thank you piasa. We should all consider ourselves thankful that freepers like you take the time to educate those of us who are less well informed.

Do you write term papers? :0)
20 posted on 04/02/2004 7:39:36 AM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (Tax energy not labor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]

To: piasa; Avenger
China is trying to argue that their EEC is actual their territorial waters

Exactly.

Excellent posts. Both of you.

21 posted on 04/02/2004 5:55:17 PM PST by maui_hawaii
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson