Navy Sues Civilian for Return of Wrecked World War II Plane He Salvaged From Swamp

Associated Press ^ | 03/27/2004 | Associated Press

[blackdog]

Remember post surrender of Japan, the footage of the navy just pushing Corsairs and Mustangs overboard into the ocean.............Just cleaning house ya know.........

[epow]

As I understand it, Brewster was the only US aircraft company to go out of business during WW-II.

Brewster designed and built the Brewster Buffalo fighter. That should have been enough to put any aircraft builder out of business.

[Moose4]

The Finns also bought many Brewster Buffaloes (Navy designation F2A). They took them, removed the Navy-mandated pilot armor and other heavy items, and actually turned what the Navy thought was a POS into a fairly capable (if still slow and obsolete) little fighter. They took it up against the Red Air Force in the 1939-40 Winter War and the 1941-44 "Continuation War." (There were Finnish aces that scored over 40 kills with the Buffalo!) The Dutch also got some decent service out of them. The Navy versions were slaughtered very early in the war around Java and quickly retired; they were slow, underpowered, and overweight, and quickly dumped in favor of the Grumman F4F Wildcat.

I'd never even heard of an F3A before this, didn't even know that Brewster license-built the Corsair. But it makes sense; Goodyear also license-built versions of the Corsair, which were designated F2G. Lots of manufacturers built each others' aircraft in WWII; Lockheed built many Boeing B-17s, Ford built Consolidated B-24s.

}:-)4

[Moose4]

Yep. I heard a story that a carrier was sailing to the Pacific carrying a shipment of Corsairs for the British Fleet Air Arm, when Japan surrendered. The Brits signalled that they didn't need the Corsairs any more since the war was over. Obviously, Chance-Vought wasn't going to take them back. So, over the side they went.

It's almost scary to look at the sheer numbers of aircraft we built in WWII--over 10,000 P-47s, over 15,000 B-24s--and realize how few are left flying. But it could be worse--Germany built over 30,000 Messerschmitt Bf 109s, and there isn't a single one left flying with its original Daimler Benz engine. The only flyable ones today are using (irony of ironies) Rolls Royce Merlins. The last Daimler-engined 109 crashed in England a few years ago and will not be restored to flying condition.

}:-)4

[KarlInOhio]

Isn't this the Brewster "Buffalo"?

No, this is the Corsair. The Buffalo was an earlier plane. Chance-Vought was the primary manufacturer for the Corsair, with Brewster and Goodyear providing additional assembly lines to produce them.

[jim_trent]

Actually, they were famous (or infamous) for the Brewster Buffalo. It is generally agreed that the Buffalo was the worst fighter in WWII. You may be thinking of the Finns who were reasonably successful with the Buffalo against the Russians. Considering they had nothing else, there was not a whole lot to measure it against.

However, the Brewster plant did try to build Corsairs under license since Vought could not produce them fast enough. Unfortunately, neither could Brewster. They built a total of 735 of them before the Navy closed the plant by yanking the contract (this episode is usually described as "closed the badly managed Brewster plant" in most histories). Interestingly, the workforce at Brewster held a strike after the plant was closed down. I don't know exactly what they were striking for, but production did not start up afterward, so I think they lost.

430 of the Brewster Corsairs were given to the British. The remainder were used for training in the US. None were used in combat. That tells me a whole lot about the quality of the workmanship. It also tells me that complaints from the British that we only gave them junk during WWII have some basis in truth.

[The Great RJ]

Like what is the Navy going to do with this plane?? Sell it on E-bay to the Canadian Forces to modernize their air fleet??? Perhaps this plane will be the backbone of Naval aviation under a Kerry administration.

[lizma]

G Gordon Liddy talked about a lawsuit that involved a cotton gin made in the 1800's. The gin when not needed went to the scrap heap, then it became a mooring for a decade or two, back to the scrap heap and then as a counter balance in a factory. While used as a counter balance it fell from it's chain and injured a man. The lawyers found a small plaque on the gin stating the original company. Turned out a subsidiary of the company was still in business and the lawsuit went through!

I think the swamp owner has a case.

Our government paid for the the storage of Helium in case the dirigible might come back for over 60 years. (clintoon stopped it. One good mark on his record.) This would be just a pittance comparatively

[Starboard]

Another case of pencil-pushers with more power than brains, looking for a way to justify their paycheck......

You have just touched on the very essence of bureaucratic life in Washington DC.

[CarryaBigStick]

Unfortunately the Navy has a long history of this sort of B.S.

Just ask Clive Cussler; he and his non-profit shipwreck hunting team have been on the recieving end of this sort of chrome plated crap. Read 'The Sea Hunters' for an illuminating look at the Navy's arrogance with regards to salvage rights.

Sometimes I think they should just fly the Jolly Roger from their ships.

[CarryaBigStick]

i after e except after c - AARRG!

[Bogey78O]

Hell, it's enough to make a man hide whatever he finds.

A decade or so ago they sued a man who inherited a vial of moon dust his dad scrubbed off an Apollo EVA suit. Not sure how it turned out.

[CarryaBigStick]

Actually, they're stealing it from this poor guy to put it into the Navy museum. It's a precedent that's already been set.

[niteowl77]

This is strictly a USN-driven issue, and it has been their standard policy for some time. If the guy had found a P-47, the U.S. Army (or Air Force) would be more likely to give the guy a pat on the back, wish him luck, let him pump money into the economy, and save the taxpayers a couple of bucks in the bargain.

[Junior]

Maritime law says a wrecked warship is forever the property of the nation that employed it. No one else has any right to salvage it. I don't know if this covers aircraft, though it does set precedents.

[Old Student]

"If the gov't abandons property why should they come back 50 yrs later and cite a claim on it?"

They didn't abandon it, they just left it for safekeeping. Actually, they'll probably say something like that. US government property is not lost or abandoned, it is unsecured.

A few years ago, they wanted to pass a law to reclaim every piece of government property ever sold at auction, too. They were specifically interested in recovering weapons and weapons system parts, but the law was broadly written enough that it covered gov't surplus canteens and such, too. All those old civil-war weapons with US markings, etc., too. EVERYTHING. Even if you still had the reciept to show you bought if FROM the government.

[Oblongata]

"Our government paid for the the storage of Helium in case the dirigible might come back for over 60 years. (clintoon stopped it. One good mark on his record.) This would be just a pittance comparatively"



Of course now that hes stopped the helium stockpiling, were once again talking about deploying large airships high in the atmosphere for missile defense.

[VRWCTexan]

At first I thought it was the "Buffalo as well

Turns out the Navy appointed two subcontractors to speed Corsair production. Brewster Aeronautical Corporation produced versions of the F4U-1 and F4U-1D, which were designated F3A-1 and F3A-1D respectively.

Brewster built about 700 Corsairs, but there were severe quality control problems which then made the F3A too dangerous to fly and almost all F3As were grounded. Brewster spent time in court then went out of business.

[chaosagent]

"But it makes sense; Goodyear also license-built versions of the Corsair, which were designated F2G. Lots of manufacturers built each others' aircraft in WWII; Lockheed built many Boeing B-17s, Ford built Consolidated B-24s."

Back in the 70's when I did contract work for the DOD, I worked on an RB-57 Canberra that had Buick jet engines on it.

[Viking2002]

Hey, I'm hip - lived there for 15 years, and was a military/guvmint contractor for a lot of it. I saw the rot festering from the inside.