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Blame whom? (A precise damnation of Spain, Greece, and other European appeasers)
Victorhanson.Com ^ | March 14, 2004, 10:00 p.m. | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 03/15/2004 2:26:56 AM PST by NZerFromHK

Edited on 06/28/2004 10:22:27 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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1 posted on 03/15/2004 2:26:58 AM PST by NZerFromHK
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To: NZerFromHK
The big news just now: Spain announced plans to withdraw its Iraq-troops

Check headlines at news.bbc.co.uk or cnn.com
2 posted on 03/15/2004 2:29:39 AM PST by Berliner Baer
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To: NZerFromHK
I've posted this before and will post again - SPAIN SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO SENT THEIR TOKEN FORCE TO IRAQ!! Al Queda was given an easy means to exploit against Spain and for what? So Bush and Powell could have a talking point? Good going guys! Now we've lost a staunch ally in the WOT
3 posted on 03/15/2004 2:29:46 AM PST by KantianBurke (Arguments that got Arnold elected in 02, will get a "moderate" RINO elected to the White House in 08)
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To: NZerFromHK
excellant and to the point!
4 posted on 03/15/2004 2:30:26 AM PST by rrrod
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To: Berliner Baer
The big news just now: Spain announced plans to withdraw its Iraq-troops

Oh no, what are we going to do. * Yawn *

5 posted on 03/15/2004 2:33:10 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: rrrod
conversation betwen euroscum and terrorist:

Terrorist: tell us where all the americans are staying at the olympics so we can kill them.

Euroscum: sure thing pals ...anything we can do to help?
6 posted on 03/15/2004 2:36:26 AM PST by rrrod
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To: NZerFromHK
As my father (a New Zealander by birth, and right-wing by nature), said whilst watching the news tonight when the Spanish elections came up, "So the terrorists won then."

Where do Europeans GET this "lie-down-roll-over-and-die" mentality when dealing with these savage Islamic curs?
7 posted on 03/15/2004 2:37:56 AM PST by KangarooJacqui ("If you can't be a good example,you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Kerry campaign slogan?)
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To: KangarooJacqui
Because I suppose they have two assumptions: 1) the terrorists are perfectly rational in their reasoning. They have political demands. You make it and they will give up bombing you, and 2) they still believe that the matter is entirely between the Islamic terrorists and the United States. "Get out of the way and they won't give a look at you.". Of course they will realize the mistake in the future, but for now...I have nothing else to say.
8 posted on 03/15/2004 2:45:08 AM PST by NZerFromHK
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To: NZerFromHK
You've got to hand it to Al Qaeda. They really knew what buttons to press. They understand European attitudes perfectly.

What's even more worrisome to me than Spain withdrawing their largely symbolic support from OIF is that two and a half years after 9/11 Al Qaeda is still capable of carrying out such effective operations.

Our government only recently said that terrorists are still capable of carrying out "spectacular attacks", and they where certainly correct. Internal security in Europe is clearly not up to snuff.

9 posted on 03/15/2004 2:49:20 AM PST by Batrachian
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To: KantianBurke
"I've posted this before and will post again - SPAIN SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO SENT THEIR TOKEN FORCE TO IRAQ!! Al Queda was given an easy means to exploit against Spain and for what? So Bush and Powell could have a talking point? Good going guys! Now we've lost a staunch ally in the WOT"

The terrorists attacked civilians and not the Spanish military. Even if the military was not there and Spain gave a words of support this would have still happened.
10 posted on 03/15/2004 2:49:45 AM PST by DeuceTraveler
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To: Tolik
Ping the list for VDH...
11 posted on 03/15/2004 2:51:10 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: KantianBurke
I've posted this before and will post again - SPAIN SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO SENT THEIR TOKEN FORCE TO IRAQ!! Al Queda was given an easy means to exploit against Spain and for what? So Bush and Powell could have a talking point? Good going guys! Now we've lost a staunch ally in the WOT

That is the silliest argument I have ever heard, and the fact that you have posted it before doesn't make it any less silly.

You are saying that the bombing in Spain is Bush's fault, a concious decision to put civilians at risk so our government could have a talking point. How many soldiers should be the minimum we "let" someone send? If we had used Turkey to deploy troops from, would the argument have been the same? Should we now reject any help Pakistan offers since they aren't cooperating enough to suit you?

Terrorists kill people because that is what they do. They are evil, and running from them doesn't fix it. They are the bad guys, not us. They must be stopped by force, and anyone who is willing to participate in that effort should be encouraged to do so.

It is a terrible thing that happened to Spain, but your blame is badly misplaced.

12 posted on 03/15/2004 2:51:25 AM PST by TN4Liberty
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To: NZerFromHK
Because I suppose they have two assumptions: 1) the terrorists are perfectly rational in their reasoning. They have political demands. You make it and they will give up bombing you, and 2) they still believe that the matter is entirely between the Islamic terrorists and the United States. "Get out of the way and they won't give a look at you.". Of course they will realize the mistake in the future, but for now...I have nothing else to say.

Number one assumption is just absurd, and I cannot believe anyone in European law enforcement still holds these views after the IRA, Bader-Meinhof and November 17 gang incidents (amongst others) on EUROPEAN SOIL nearly thirty years ago. The only way to negotiate with people like that is to shoot them. Always has been.
Number 2 assumption is just horsehooey. Most Americans I know (no offence, FReepers) can't even correctly pronounce "Bali", let alone find it on a map. THOSE bombings were Islamic extremists sending a warning to Australia - and I'm sorry but since when has Australia been the 51st state of the USA?

We both know this current round of ass-covering in Spain and elsewhere is head-in-the-sand "diplomacy" on behalf of the Europeans. In my opinion, it is sickening.
13 posted on 03/15/2004 2:54:36 AM PST by KangarooJacqui ("If you can't be a good example,you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Kerry campaign slogan?)
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To: KangarooJacqui
Europe is fast becoming an Islamic continent. There may be fear, anxiety or just plain capitulation to what is seen to be an inevitable overtaking of the "western" culture of Europe by Muslims. This is not to say all of Europe will embrace radical Islam, but it will be a large base of Islamic culture and law, and it appears that because of immigration and population booms, there's little any one country can do to stop it. What we see now is the first domino to fall. We must come to grips with the fact that it won't be the last.
14 posted on 03/15/2004 2:54:56 AM PST by Use It Or Lose It ( You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: TN4Liberty
EXACTLY RIGHT AND WELL SAID , THANK YOU!
15 posted on 03/15/2004 2:55:01 AM PST by rrrod
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To: rrrod
Tell the euro-trash to defend the olympics. Let us know how it turns out.
16 posted on 03/15/2004 2:56:04 AM PST by snooker (Drag a 'botox gigolo' through a swamp, and some dumb gator will always bite.)
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To: NZerFromHK
Uuuh, not quite. Being a Bush-critic and part of the "Euro-trash", as folks here rather arrogantly tend to call us Europeans, lemme give ya my view:

1. Those already turned Terrorists are not rational. They must be tracked down and thrown into prison. They also won't care much over troop-removals or Government-changes, they'll keep on with their program.

2. Terrorists aren't born that way, they are being recruited by propaganda. One approach must be to change the basis for this propaganda, in order to weaken the future-support and get less recruits for these terrorist-groups, e.g. solving the mideast-conflict, giving Arabs a better perspective on life in their countries (a full belly is less aggressive), acting with justice against those involved in criminal acts. Winning the war on the propaganda-front is just as important as the one on law-enforcement.

Of course, the lesson from this Spanish troop-withdrawal now is a bad one - terrorists likely feel rewarded and will use this in their propaganda. One shall never give in to terrorism.

I certainly hope - and I am quite certain - that Germany won't withdraw its Afghanistan-troops, if we ever should get "punished" by these terrorist whackos.
17 posted on 03/15/2004 2:57:28 AM PST by Berliner Baer
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To: KantianBurke
Stop spamming every article with the same inane Buchananite sh!t.

The Spanish people were never staunch allies and you damn well know it.

18 posted on 03/15/2004 2:57:40 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: snooker
Tell the euro-trash to defend the olympics.

I predict the US will not send their team to Athens because of security concerns.

19 posted on 03/15/2004 2:57:48 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: KantianBurke
"SPAIN SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO SENT THEIR TOKEN FORCE TO IRAQ!! Al Queda was given an easy means to exploit against Spain and for what?"

So you only want allies that can't/won't fight?
20 posted on 03/15/2004 2:59:21 AM PST by DugwayDuke
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