Ohio's Critical Analysis of Evolution

Critical Evaluation of Evolution ^ | March 2004 | Ohio State Board of Education

[longshadow]

the harder concepts are far more difficult to grasp.

Hey; this is a family forum -- no talking dirty allowed!

[js1138]

So you would argue that evoluton is part of a natural order that was designed?

[Fester Chugabrew]

So you would argue that evolution is part of a natural order that was designed?

Yes. The processes of evolution we have been able to observe thus far give ample demonstration of intelligent design.

[Right Wing Professor]

The processes of evolution we have been able to observe thus far give ample demonstration of intelligent design.

So what design principle do the 49 defective copies of the cytochrome c gene present in the human genome demonstrate?

[js1138]

I think you are trying to evade my question. What part of mutation and selection requires us to assume anything other than the regular and unchanging processes of chemistry and physics?

[Doctor Stochastic]

So what design principle do the 49 defective copies of the cytochrome c gene present in the human genome demonstrate?

Mockery

[PatrickHenry]

So what design principle do the 49 defective copies of the cytochrome c gene present in the human genome demonstrate?

O blasphemous skeptic! Have you never heard of the precautionary practice used by of publishers of roadmaps? They deliberately create some tiny error in each map they publish. That way they can prove, if needed, that someone has illegally copied their work, because no one designing an original roadmap would include the identical (and erroneous) feature.

Clearly, the Great Intelligent Designer (GID) is using such errors to protect his work from being ripped off by some Slime-Ball Designer (SBD). But now that I think of it, how can we be sure that we're products of the GID? We could be a second-rate planet full of cheap knock-offs.

[Right Wing Professor]

We could be a second-rate planet full of cheap knock-offs.

There's third rate people being shot! Cheap dialogue! Cheap sets and scenery!

(Let's see which of you aging hipsters can identify that reference!)

[Fester Chugabrew]

So what design principle do the 49 defective copies of the cytochrome c gene present in the human genome demonstrate?

Without a more solid knowledge of the phenomenon you've iterated I can only make a few guesses. Let me start by noting that a certain observer has rendered the judgement, or conclusion, that these genes represent a "defect." Since I am not that observer I have no way or knowing whether the judgment is true.

Let me ask a couple questions so I can learn a little about this phenomenon, and then I may be in a better position to judge whether this phenomenon fits into the Beauregard Table of Winged Anomalies.

1.) Out of the whole spectrum of genetic phenomena, how often (just a shoot-from-the hip percentage will do) does this defect manifest itself?

2.) What are the characteristics of this phenomenon that would cause the observer to conclude it is defective?

[Fester Chugabrew]

What part of mutation and selection requires us to assume anything other than the regular and unchanging processes of chemistry and physics?

I cannot think of anything, because regular and unchanging processes ipso facto imply intelligent design, therefore intelligent design is not an unreasonable element to ascribe to either mutation or selection.

[js1138]

You have posed a remarkably google-proof puzzle. Here's mine: Who said,

"There were 345 murders in this city in the last six months, and they have three things in common. First, they have nothing in common; second, they have no motive; and third, they are all unsolved."

Some paraphrasing here.

[js1138]

ipso facto

I can't argue with a position that declares itself to be correct by definition. I would interest me, however, why you struggle so against pepople who devote their lives to unraveling those natural processes.

What has ID done to unravel the myseries, other than declare the problems unsolvable?

[Lurking Libertarian]

Little Murders? (I'm guessing, I haven't seen that film in decades.)

[Right Wing Professor]

Without a more solid knowledge of the phenomenon you've iterated I can only make a few guesses. Let me start by noting that a certain observer has rendered the judgement, or conclusion, that these genes represent a "defect."

Here's a short abstract , and this is the full paper (preprint) if you feel like wading in deep.

The genes aren't a defect, they're defective. More specifically, they are unexpressed.

Out of the whole spectrum of genetic phenomena, how often (just a shoot-from-the hip percentage will do) does this defect manifest itself?

Nobody knows yet. Some genes have no pseudogenes; some have scores. As a class project, i had some students look for pseudogenes of the ribosomal proteins. One had 19 closely related pseudogenes; several others had fewer; some had none.

What are the characteristics of this phenomenon that would cause the observer to conclude it is defective?

Pseudogenes in general either lack a functional promoter, or a start codon, and are therefore not transcribed. Because they're intron-less, they are considered to be a result of retrotransposition, another process that is at best useless and at worst malignant, and either way inconsistent with a design hypothesis.

[js1138]

bingo. It showed up recently on a satellite channel. couldn't watch it. So full of 70's crap.

[Right Wing Professor]

You have posed a remarkably google-proof puzzle

I know :-)

The reason is the usual online lyrics sources don't include those lines, but they're on the record.

"There were 345 murders in this city in the last six months, and they have three things in common. First, they have nothing in common; second, they have no motive; and third, they are all unsolved.

...and I've heard that line, too, but I can't remenber where it came from!

[js1138]

The reason is the usual online lyrics sources don't include those lines, but they're on the record.

whatever it is, I don't believe I've ever smoked it.

[Right Wing Professor]

Holiday in the sun, by the Sex Pistols. Great song, if you like them very fast, very loud, and without too many chords.

[js1138]

Nope. After my time and before my kids'.

[PatrickHenry]

Holiday in the sun, by the Sex Pistols.

I kinda skipped the '60s. I was here, but they went right by me. I don't regret it.