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Division's aim is more humvee firepower
Marine Corps News ^ | March 4, 2004 | Lance Cpl. Samuel Palmer

Posted on 03/08/2004 2:18:15 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4

MARINE CORPS BASE CAMP PENDLETON, Calif.(March 4, 2004) --

Heavily armed humvees are in the Marine Corps' future — but will they come soon enough to help Marines in Operation Iraqi Freedom?

If Maj. Gregory G. Frich has his way, they will.

"Our intent is to make this mount available for OIF II as soon as possible," Frich, 1st Marine Division's ordnance officer, said about a prototype mount that allows attachment of several crew-served machine guns on vehicle doors.

The idea for the mount was spawned during Operation Iraqi Freedom, when Marines riding through Iraqi towns in humvees at times ran gauntlets of rifle, machine-gun and rocket-propelled-grenade fire. Sometimes the enemy fire came against softback humvees with no mounted weapons.

"This has the potential to change the way (Marines) conduct themselves while under enemy fire in a convoy," said Cpl. David R. Conwan, a machine-gun instructor for 1st Marine Division Schools. "It allows Marines to maneuver during any hasty situations that they might find themselves in a humvee."

"It has potential not only to return rounds but also to deter enemy fire to convoys," added Sgt. Joel D. Ramsey, another machine-gun instructor.

The division has been testing the mount for the past month. Testing didn't go smoothly at first; machine-gun instructors rejected the first two prototypes before the third passed a series of field tests.

"The first model that we tested was awkward to shoot with, so we made suggestions to make it easier for use, and within a week, we had a new one to test," Ramsey said.

The mount includes two components that can be installed and removed within a matter of seconds, Ramsey said. The main element has two 1-foot-long metal arms with a cradle that holds the machine guns and ammunition.

There's a bar so the mount can slide along the vehicle. The third component, the door adapter, is attached to the humvee but unnoticeable.

"The machinist has been cooperative with our suggestions. He takes what we have to say, then he brings it back to us improved and in a timely fashion," Conwan said.

Mass production can begin as soon as the mounts are approved, Frich said. The approval process for new items is complex and could delay installation of the mounts on vehicles in Iraq, Frich said.

Approval could take anywhere from three weeks to three years, he said.

"It's difficult to determine how long it can take," he said. "There are so many considerations for final acquisitions approval."


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: balkans; gunvees; hmmwv; marines; oif2; usmc
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Cpl. David R. Cowan, a machine gun instructor for 1st Marine Division Schools, fires an M-240G mounted to a humvee. The mount underwent three modifications before the Devision machine gun instructors were satisfied with the results. Cowan was responsible for testing the mount and providing his opinions for modifications to the prototype. Photo by: Lance Cpl. Samuel Palmer

1 posted on 03/08/2004 2:18:15 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4
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To: af_vet_rr; ALOHA RONNIE; American in Israel; American Soldier; archy; armymarinemom; BCR #226; ...
ping
2 posted on 03/08/2004 2:21:15 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Kerry's experience consists of living off other men's money by marrying their wives and daughters)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
The ultimate prairie dog hunting rig!
3 posted on 03/08/2004 2:26:02 PM PST by anonymous_user (Politics is show business for ugly people.)
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To: Radix
Iraq death spurs push for Humvee armor
4 posted on 03/08/2004 2:27:05 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Kerry's experience consists of living off other men's money by marrying their wives and daughters)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
>an M-240G mounted to a humvee...

Hmmm. I wouldn't mind
having one of those in some
neighborhoods 'round here . . .

5 posted on 03/08/2004 2:27:34 PM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: theFIRMbss
Hehheh... A gun RACK, or a gun MOUNT? Which does YOUR Hummer have?
6 posted on 03/08/2004 2:41:00 PM PST by Old Sarge
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
That's a great idea. Note that the door is already reinforced in the picture. Marines got almost all of their doors armored before deployment which was a fantastic effort on their part and a model for the army to follow. I hope they get the gunmounts too on this rotation.
7 posted on 03/08/2004 2:42:48 PM PST by Ranger
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
I might have been talking to this gunner in a bar in San Clemente last Saturday night. He and his buddy were sitting at the bar having a beer. He did the M-60's and his buddy did the mortars.

I told them I really appreciated their service and they lit up like kids at Christmas. They said that they get very little thanks from Californians. I am proud to be an exception. They were in Iraq for the war and are headed back in June.

Pray for them.
8 posted on 03/08/2004 2:46:52 PM PST by montomike (Gay means happy and carefree not an abomination)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
I'm in.
In my old artillery unit, I drove the advanced party humvee a few times during AT.
We had no way to fire to our front, but we could shoot to our sides.
Basically we ended up doing a 'drive by' shooting on the guys playing Opfor.
Kinda odd to drive with one hand while sticking the 16 over your arm to shoot out through the unzippered window.
I somehow managed.
Obviously not workable during actual combat.
Wish we'd had such a mounting when I was in uniform.
9 posted on 03/08/2004 2:54:26 PM PST by Darksheare (Fortune for today: Don't believe the Lawn Gnomes. They lie like a stone.)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
Here's a thought - instead of piddling around with these humvee's - just use APC's
10 posted on 03/08/2004 2:56:37 PM PST by RS (Just because they're out to get him doesn't mean he's not guilty)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
Can I get a drivers side mount too?
11 posted on 03/08/2004 2:58:15 PM PST by SAMWolf (Please write your complaint legibly in this box -->[].)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
I not a vet, so I hope this question doesn't seem dumb! The gunner seems pretty exposed. How about some sort of shield, either like those on the M113's in Vietnam or using lexan something like what bank tellers sit behind. Or would the loss of view outweigh any advantage?
12 posted on 03/08/2004 3:38:31 PM PST by SoCal Pubbie
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To: SoCal Pubbie
Pub...very good question. A top mount with a rotating armour shield may be another way of approaching this.

I also think this exposes both the gunner and interior to hostile fire. We'll see what get worked up.

13 posted on 03/08/2004 5:02:47 PM PST by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4; MJY1288; xzins; Calpernia; TEXOKIE; Alamo-Girl; windchime; Grampa Dave; ...

Heavily armed humvees are in the Marine Corps' future — but will they come soon enough to help Marines in Operation Iraqi Freedom?

If Maj. Gregory G. Frich has his way, they will.

"Our intent is to make this mount available for OIF II as soon as possible," Frich, 1st Marine Division's ordnance officer, said about a prototype mount that allows attachment of several crew-served machine guns on vehicle doors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For the troops!

(bad news for the bad guys, ping!)


14 posted on 03/08/2004 5:11:21 PM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl ("(We)..come to rout out tyranny from its nest. Confusion to the enemy." - B. Taylor, US Marine)
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To: Khurkris; Cannoneer No. 4; NormsRevenge
The Stryker is Army only?

How much more weight in armor and Gun mounts can a Humvee handle ?

Where are all the armoured personnel carriers?

15 posted on 03/08/2004 5:32:36 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Thanks for the ping!
16 posted on 03/08/2004 5:34:14 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: SoCal Pubbie
A transparent gun shield might not be a bad idea.

Being able to quickly put a high volume of firepower on the people who are trying to kill you is often better than passive protection like armor. If the transparent gun shield can still let the gun and the gunner do their jobs, it is probably good. If it gets in the way or slows the gunner down, it may cause more problems than it is worth.

17 posted on 03/08/2004 5:40:56 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (I always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
Adapt. Overcome. Continue kicking ass! You know Cpl. Cowan is hitting that target, not just scaring it.
18 posted on 03/08/2004 5:44:22 PM PST by Spruce (Pres. J.F.Kerry would be an absolute disaster for western civilization.)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
"M-240G mounted to a humvee."

I dunno, a M240 is still only a 5.56mm. I think this is a pretty weak round to have mounted on a vehicle. I think I'd rather have the reach and clout provided by a MA-DEUCE cal .50 or even a MK19 40mm! That might be the tanker in me a talkin' but I was an Infantry Officer before I was a tanker and we put the MK19 on our FAV's and it worked great.

19 posted on 03/08/2004 5:44:56 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
Re: A transparent gun shield might not be a bad idea.

Perhaps I'm over engineering, but . . .
With this mount taking the load, why not put optics on the gun and the camera/trigger on the dash of the cab ?

Didn't the IDF have a gun that could "shoot around corners" with the barrel seperated from the LCD screen and trigger ?

20 posted on 03/08/2004 5:53:46 PM PST by ChadGore ("Maybe they thought Saddam would lose the next Iraqi election")
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