[azhenfud]

Did President Bush and our intelligence agencies decieve America and the world, or did Saddam Hussein's deceitful shell game finally catch up on him?

No absolute link between Saddam Hussein and Al Queida has or probably ever will be made - or if it ever is, at best it'll most probably be some fragment of a rogue cell with a past attempt to have overthrown him, now training their focus on Americans. He hated Al Queida, and they reciprocated the admiration.

A Middle-Eastern born friend of mine said if anyone from President Bush's Administration and our intelligence agencies had known as much about Al Queida, Iraq, and Saddam Hussein as they had claimed and had evaluated the situation more thoroughly, they would understand 1) why the link between the two would not be substantial, 2) why Hussein was such a ruthless dictator, and 3) why Al Queida could not effectively operate in/from Iraq. He said that they too would realize Saddam would never outrightly state to the world he had no WMD's because he feared losing his control over Iraq to organizations like Al Queida more than he feared the US, because the US, with the UN, allowed Hussein to remain in power in 1991. Surely there was no commendable intention inherent of Saddam to keep Al Queida at bay. Saddam's only interest was keeping his power over Iraqi's secure. If Hussein continued to have any idea he could return to power, even the most remote threat of WMD's use was his insurance policy against those seeking to oust him.

My friend stated to understand Al Queida, you have to understand one thing foremost. Al Queida insists "Allah" has given it the sole and total responsibility to rule, to execute judgement, and/or wage war (or terror) and by its very nature, could never have shared power with Saddam. He said a basic understanding of Hussein's greed as a dictator and of the control Al Queida's religious zealots demand, made the two like an oil and water mix. Saddam would never have given Al Queida control of Iraq and acted only as a "figurehead"; Al Queida would never allow a dictator to have as much control over a people as Saddam had. He said the pre-war differences between Afghanistan and Iraq rule should have been a clear indication to that reasoning.

He also said as horrible as it seems from a Western POV, for Saddam to have kept his power intact within the country, many of those killing fields were an (unexcusably sick) necessity for him with an offended Al Queida and similar Islamic fanatical cells within and on the borders. Iraq and battling Islamic factions cannot be fully understood based on Western standards. It just doesn't work.

America's intelligence failures in this area could result in a negative/opposite effect from our intentions because there is no longer the ruthless control of Iraq to resist the insurgence of Al Queida or other terror cells. Their main target is Westerners (Americans) and now Iraq is full of American targets. Al Queida's history has demonstrated the only muzzle it fears is the iron glove - that will take years for the Iraqi people to accomplish in Iraq even with America's help.

Were Americans and the world decieved? I believe so - but the deceit originated in Iraq. No amount of intelligence could have determined Saddam had no WMD's if he intended the world to believe he may have still had them.

I'm not saying his is a totally correct POV, but on the other hand, I'm guilty of having viewed Iraq and Saddam from Western eyes, myself..

[JohnGalt]

Thank you for that thoughtful post, I enjoyed the read.

I think the headline is a fair statement: "Hussein ties to al Qaeda appear faulty", but I posted the article to illustrate the nature of our government when the CIA is in thinly veiled conflict with the Administration.

Rather than deal with the past, look at the article from a third party perspective about what is going on here. Bush will have to deliver a satisfactory remedy (fire a few folks or something) or this death by a thousand cuts will go on through November.

[hobbes1]

No absolute link between Saddam Hussein and Al Queida has or probably ever will be made ....

Correct. That iw why, prior to 1992, and after 2001, (what's curious aobut those dates) U.S. Foreign Policy was unequivocal about terrorism being a STATE SPONSORED ACTIVITY, rather than a criminal one.

[optimistically_conservative]

Your friend is telling you half the story. Ask him to explain the ties between international terror groups and Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. None of these states want AQ taking them over or want demonstrable AQ ties.

Same as with Iraq.

However, jihadism became an important political force in the Middle East and many states were involved in it. Saddam's intelligence force was as well.

Emphasizing how states distance themselves and set limits to their involvement in terrorists while ignoring how they support them as proxies is an attempt to limit their liability.

I'm fascinated by the argument that claims were not wrong, but overstated. The critics of experts warning the US was under attack and would experience a significant terrorist attack 30 years ago were using the same tactic. It has cost 1,000s of lives.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Your friend sounds like he has missed the boat wrt understanding Iraq. Saddam did not have any problem with AQ within Iraq and, in fact, aided them and allowed them to set up shop to fight the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Nor were the killing fields used to dispose of AQ sypathizers or members.
Most of the victims were Shiite which were the major concern of Saddam.

AQ never tried to overthrow Saddam. Where did he come up with that howler? Nor did either "hate" the other though mutual wariness certainly existed. AQ members were trained at Salman Pak though kept isolated from Iraqi intelligence and military elements as much as possible.

In addition the danger AQ poses for Americans in Iraq is wildly overstated and shows every indication of diminishing day by day. Recent attacks against the Shiites is evidence that it is failing to retain any power or to gain more. The recent letter showed just how desperate AQ is and its laments will not become less intense as days go by.