The Passion police

Townhall ^ | 2/28/04 | Doug Giles

[Burkeman1]

The comparison of "Schindler's List" and "The Passion of The Christ" is interesting. I thought of "Schindler's List" immediately after viewing "The Passion"- the reaction of the two movie audiences were identical- silence at the end and both sat through all the credits until the lights were turned on.

[SkyPilot]

Great article---thanks for reminding me that the Internet is the hammer of free speech, and the blogosphere (especially FreeRepublic) is the anvil on which ideas are tested and forged.

In years past, effeminte movie critics and shady lawyers turned leftwing columnists could spew their talking points, and frame the debate.

No longer. The "the passion is anti-Semetic" and "it's too violent" charges were hammered out in the blogs, and hit out of the park.

Left wing critics who tried to interfere with this movie remind me of that Chicago Cubs fan (whatshisname) ---Steve Bartman?----who puts his grubby paws on the ball and prevented the Cubs from getting into the World Series.

Congrats Liberals----how does it feel to be Steve Bartman?

[SkyPilot]

"Don't catch that ball!!! It is anti-Semetic and too violent!!!!"

[lainde]

bttt

[HiTech RedNeck]

A swastika would mean nothing to a 1st century Pharisee...

[Imal]

LOL my thoughts exactly.

How about a test where you don't even see the whole inkblot, but are pretty sure it's a swastika anyway?

[VxH]

>>A swastika would mean nothing to a 1st century Pharisee...

The Nazi swastika is not the only version.

The Swastika is an ancient symbol that appears, in various forms, all over the world throughout recorded history.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=history+of+the+swastika

[VxH]

>>I always like the idea that Jesus was writing the names of the accusers

Or a symbol that identified their group. Look at the Old Testament history of the Children of Israel.

Who was it that kept leading them back into Idol worship every chance they got...

Moses goes up on the mountain to get the 10 commandments, and when he comes down, there's the pagan golden calf waiting.

What's the worlds oldest pagan symbol? The Swastika.

[wardaddy]

Can you elaborate?

That all sort of went over my head.

Respectfully.

[VxH]

>>Can you elaborate?

 

Sure, let's look at some examples where the people of Israel were led astray to worship pagan gods and idols:

 

    Ex 32:1 When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down

           from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said,

          "Come, make us gods who will go before us.

 

    1 Kings 16:13  because of all the sins Baasha and his son Elah had committed and

          had caused Israel to commit, so that they provoked the LORD, the God

          of Israel, to anger by their worthless idols.

 

    2 Kings 21:11  Manasseh king of Judah has committed these detestable sins.

         He has done more evil than the Amorites who preceded him and

         has led Judah into sin with his idols.

 

    Ps 106:35-37
        35 but they mingled with the nations and adopted their customs.

        36 They worshiped their idols, which became a snare to them.
        37 They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons.

 

There are further examples, but the above suffice to illustrate the point - that there was a continuous effort by Satan to lead the Children of Israel - the people chosen by God to provide the lineage of Jesus Christ - into temptation and self-destruction.

 

Elements of the leadership of the people of Israel were used by Satan to mislead the people into the worship of pagan gods.

 

Forms of the Swastika are common to many pagan religions...  the seditious members of the Sanhedrin, (the group of priests who had Jesus arrested) - who were collaborating with the Romans  - would have recognized their own guilt through this symbol...

 

 

Here's another illustration: 

 

If Adolph Hitler was working under an assumed name at a fruit stand in Bolivia, and you walked up and drew a Nazi Swastika on the ground... the message - "I know who you are and what you did", would be clear.

 

[VxH]

It's the context of the question of guilt that makes it plausible, and what made me think of the Swastika.

Let the one of you who is without guilt throw the first rock and, oh, by the way, How's your project to sell out your people to the Romans and their pagan gods comming along?

I've elaborated on this elsewhere:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1087653/posts?page=50#50

[q_an_a]

Are you afraid that biblical absolutes will be strongly resurrected into the public arena and thus potentially ruin your randy relativism?

one can hope and pray. This is what seperates today's practicing Christian from those who just check the box on their "forms".

[Dialup Llama]

>Easy turbo, in the Gospels Jesus is shown to have been writing in the sand at one point. It is never revealed what it is that He writes, but a common idea, through tradition is that it was a drawing of a fish, an early Christian symbol. From watching the film, I saw what looked to be the beginnings of a fish as well.

Another speculation I heard was that Jesus wrote the names of people in the crowd and some of the secret sins they committed.

[OneVike]

It looked like an S on it's side... and then, though we didn't see what was written, Jesus arm motion appears to write another "S"

The scriptures point out that Christ was writing in the sand, but never say what he wrote. My belif is that he was writing hebrew word for sin. So it would not be unimaginable to think Mel had Jesus write the hebrew sign for sin.

Just a thought.

[Imal]

It's the context of the question of guilt that makes it plausible, and what made me think of the Swastika.

I think the point of contention is whether or not the swastika would have any significance to members of the Sanhedrin, and whether or not it would, as you insinuate, be considered a symbol of evil by them.

Although the swastika does have a long history in south and east Asian religions, as well as in several cultures around the world (including ours prior to the Nazis), I have seen nothing definitive indicating that it represented evil to the eyes of ancient Jews. I have seen the swastika inscribed in Buddhist and Hindu sacred places, where it is considered a sacred symbol, but it was assuredly not a representation of evil.

For more on what the swastika has actually represented historically in various cultures, you may want to check out this informative article on Wikipedia. If, after reading that article, and perhaps conducting other research, you still think the swastika could have been used by Jesus to represent evil, I will be fascinated to see your explanation -- with sources cited.

Did you actually read any of the histories of the swastika pointed to by the Google search you included in Post #47?

I did. They invariably contradict your claims. To quote one example: "The swastika existed as a symbol of good fortune thousands of years before the Nazis even existed."

Let the one of you who is without guilt throw the first rock and, oh, by the way,

You have already thrown the first rock, by making a wild, unsubstantiated and insulting claim. You have thrown a second rock by asking an absurd and insulting question, addressed below.

If you are so sensitive to criticism, I can assure you that the problem lies not with us, but with your aberrant behavior. If I had posted such things, I would expect no less. We all are subject to the same rules. You are not a martyr.

People who throw rocks should not live in glass houses.

How's your project to sell out your people to the Romans and their pagan gods comming along?

What the hell are you talking about? I think it is quite reasonable for me and anyone reading this to expect you to clarify such a pernicious and slanderous question. I am not selling anything, let alone my people.

I'm sure the impetus for your crass question is interesting, if not true, but be assured that hurling false accusations around will not increase your standing with me nor on FR. Nor will it deter me from debunking your falsehoods.

I've elaborated on this elsewhere:

I am unable to substantiate your claims based on your elaboration, but I am curious as to how you have arrived at the conclusions you have. If you have any references that can reasonably validate your claims, please present them.

But I hope you can understand how laying out talk of Jesus writing swastikas in the sand and Jews having a project to sell ourselves out to "the Romans and their pagan gods", without at least something to back it up, comes across to those of us who have no idea what you are talking about.

You are entitled, of course, to engage in whatever bizarre sophistry you want. You are not entitled, however, to expect my unqualified support for it.

[VxH]

>>But I hope you can understand how laying out talk of Jesus writing swastikas in the sand

 

Actually, I was wrong, it wasn't a swastika.  I saw the movie again today.  My apology for the confusion.

 

Gibson flashed back to a scene where the Sanhedrin was going to stone a prostitute. 

 

Gibson showed Jesus drawing a line in that sand.  Then above that line, an S was drawn, Jesus then began to draw another character, that we did not see the completion of, to the left of the "S".

 

So Gibson leaves it up to the imagination of the viewer to decide what word he was thinking about, that began with "S".

 

Hmmm.. Let's see:

 

Satan was shown tempting Jesus in the garden, Satan was shown watching and smiling as Jesus was being scourged and tortured, Satan was following along and smiling as Jesus bore His cross on the way to be crucified.   But Satan wasn't smiling when Satan was left screaming in hell as Christ ascended.

 

So, I'm going to use my Imagination and take a wild guess to complete the word that began with the "S" that was *clearly* drawn in the sand, by adding "atan". Satan?

 

    Ps 106:35-39
        35 but they mingled with the nations and adopted their customs.
        36 They worshiped their idols,which became a snare to them.
        37 They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons.
        38 They shed innocent blood,the blood of their sons and daughters,

             whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
        39 They defiled themselves by what they did;  by their deeds they prostituted themselves.

 

    Rev 2:9 (Jesus Christ said)
        I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

 

 

And, before you go all "anti-Semitic" on me, I'm not saying that "all" Jews were a synagogue of Satan.  That would be as ludicrous as saying that "All 240 million Americans blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City".   In both cases, It was just a seditious few.... traitors within.

 

But, of course, that IS just my personal interpretation of the Word... and I could be wrong.

[VxH]

>>Let the one of you who is without guilt throw the
>>first rock and, oh, by the way, How's your project
>>to sell out your people to the Romans and
>>their pagan gods coming along?

 

That didn't come across quite like I had intended.

 

It wasn't meant to be interpreted as a question to, or accusation of, either of you.

 

Should have prefixed to read something like:

 

[

        It's as if Jesus was saying to the Sanhedrin:

 

        Let the one of you who is without guilt throw the first rock

        and, oh, by the way, How's your current rendition of Psalm 106:36 coming along? ]

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[VxH]

>>So it would not be unimaginable to think Mel had Jesus write the hebrew sign for sin.
>>Just a thought.

Whatever it was that Jesus wrote, it stopped the would-be stone throwers, um, stone-cold.

I'm wondering if it didn't have something to do with these scriptural references:

Ps 106:35-39
        35 but they mingled with the nations and adopted their customs.
        36 They worshiped their idols,which became a snare to them.
        37 They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons.    

        38 They shed innocent blood,the blood of their sons and daughters,

             whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
        39 They defiled themselves by what they did;  by their deeds they prostituted themselves.

 

 Rev 2:9 (Jesus Christ said)
        I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.