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Rocky Mountain Gun Owners Alert: Kill 1805 Immediately
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners ^ | 02/26/04 | Rocky Mountain Gun Owners

Posted on 02/27/2004 7:54:46 AM PST by Copernicus

Rocky Mountain Gun Owners

EMERGENCY ALERT - S.1805 has Gun Control attached -- KILL IT!

Feb. 26, 2004, 1300 hrs Mountain - As predicted, S.1805, the Lawsuit Liability bill, is being debated on the Senate Floor right now (at the behest of its sponsor, Idaho Senator Larry Craig).

And late last night, Senator Larry Craig (a board member of the NRA) worked with rabid anti-gunner Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) to come up with a "Unanimous Consent Agreement" which allows a large number of gun control amendments to be offered to S.1805.

By pushing this bill to be heard on the floor, and agreeing to hear a large number of gun control amendments (listed below), Senator Craig has opened up Pandora's Box of Gun Control.

That means you MUST call your US Senators immediately, even if you called them yesterday.

Senator Wayne Allard can be reached at (202) 224-5941.

Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell can be reached at (202) 224-5852.

Urge both of Colorado's Senators to VOTE AGAINST S.1805, now that it has gun control on it and is likely to contain more.

As this alert is being written, the Senate just passed an amendment (by 70-27, for story on this amendment click here, or here for full text) to require Trigger locks (we do not have the language, but will shortly) and is moving toward more gun control. It's a federal government intrusion on your right to self-defense, and FAR outweighs any good S.1805's original language would do.

And as this is being written, Sen. Teddy Kennedy is offering an amendment to ban "Cop Killer Bullets."

After agreeing to the "Unanimous Consent Agreement", Sen. Larry Craig said "Some of these amendments could pass." This C-Span2 admission is understating it -- some of these gun control amendments WILL pass. In fact, one already has, and others gun control advocates are lining up to join in on the "fun".

NRA Board Member Sen. Larry Craig has agreed to allow a slated list of gun control amendments to S.1805. These include, but are not limited to, the following unspecified gun controls:

Boxer - new Federal rules for Gun locks

Campbell - Cop-Only Nationwide Carry

Kennedy - Cop Killer Bullets

Mikulski - Snipers

McCain-Reed - Gun Show ban

Feinstein - Assault Weapons ban

Frist/Craig - Cop Killer bullets (a toned down, yet still anti-gun rights version of Kennedy's amendment)

And these are only the amendments that have been announced. Others almost certainly will be floated, and maybe passed.

Does this constitute proof that the NRA "struck a deal" to allow gun controls to pass? Of course, they claim they didn't cut any deals.

But ask these questions:

1. Have you received an e-mail from NRA-ILA urging voting against S.1805 IF it gets gun control on it? They KNOW quite well that this bill will have gun control on it, and have known it for weeks. Instead, they play inside baseball and tell gun owners "Trust us -- we have a plan", trusting in their own cleverness to circumvent the anti-gunners amendments. That is the same thing they said on the McCain-Fiengold Campaign Finance Deform bill (which stripped gun owners of their 1st Amendment rights) as well as the first Assault Weapons and High-capacity magazines ban bill, Brady Registration Checks, Lautenberg Gun Ban, etc, etc.

That's a failed strategy, and should be abandoned.

Remember, the definition of insanity is continuing to do what you've always done but expecting different results.

They'll post some things on their website (which is passive), but they won't apply real pressure. That mean's they are, by their silence, agreeing to this "Unanimous Consent Agreement." And their board member, Sen. Larry Craig, openly agreed to that agreement with Sen. Reed.

Craig will vote against most (not all -- in fact, Sen. Craig offered his own "Cop Killer Bullets" amendment in an attempt to appease Teddy Kennedy) of the gun controls, but he's the person who enabled all of these gun control amendments.

2. Why would an NRA board member accept a Unanimous Consent Agreement to allow a huge number of amendments to be debated, all of which strip gun owners of their rights and many of which that board member (and US Senator) knows will pass?

The writer of this alert is a former staff member (not intern) of the U.S. Senate, under Senator Bill Armstrong. I know how the U.S. Senate works, and have been in regular consultation with those who have worked in all aspects of Congress for decades.

One thing is crystal clear: the NRA's mouthpiece, US Senator Larry Craig (R-Idaho), has agreed to let these amendments be heard, and he knows some will be attached to the bill.

3. Have you heard the NRA say that they will oppose S.659/S.1805 in the Senate if it gets gun control amendments on it? We haven't, and doubt we will, since their US Senator is the one who enabled those amendments to be attached. Their plan, to let these gun controls ride on the bill and hope they are stripped out in the House, is an incredibly risky gambit, which if lost will result in the largest erosion of our rights in American history.

There's no more time to waste.

Call your US Senators immediately and urge them to vote AGAINST S.1805.

Senator Wayne Allard can be reached at (202) 224-5941.

Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell can be reached at (202) 224-5852.

Urge them to vote against S.1805.

It's time to pull the plug on this well-meaning, but gun-control-laden dog.

E-mail: ExDir@RMGO.org


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; guncontrol; rkba
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To: Shooter 2.5
Please post this information on the other three threads where you've taken an opposite position regarding Craig's actions.
81 posted on 02/27/2004 3:25:19 PM PST by skip2myloo
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To: Shooter 2.5
As well as being a Republican Senator, Craig is an NRA Director (of course, you know that) -- in that capacity I assume he speaks for the NRA ??

If so, what he is saying is flat out wrong and NRA HQ and NRA ILA have not contradicted his position nor activities with regard to S. 1805.

82 posted on 02/27/2004 3:28:25 PM PST by skip2myloo
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To: CheezyD
Perhaps one should wait until they know what really is in the bill before calling for it's death.

Seems to me that we almost never find out whats really in a (major) bill till after it becomes law. Thake the Patriot act, for example.

83 posted on 02/27/2004 3:29:09 PM PST by templar
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To: jocko12
Point of order question.

After this, the seant bill goes with the house bill into committee. The two are then resolved of conflict.

Could not all these amendments be stripped in commitee since the house said it was going to be solid on a clean bill going to the president?
84 posted on 02/27/2004 3:30:29 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: B4Ranch
AND, Craig will leave to the AG the unbridled authority to determine arbitrarily what is Armor Piercing Ammo.

Could well be any hunting, or FMJ round that is REQUIRED for use in all NRA/CMP Service rifle and Pistol competitions, including at Camp Perry.

85 posted on 02/27/2004 3:31:17 PM PST by skip2myloo
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To: longtermmemmory
Yes. Further more, they need to go BACK to their originating houses after they leave the committee for ratification. Problem with that is, Teddy "the Swimmer" Kennedy sits on that committee.
86 posted on 02/27/2004 3:33:24 PM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Dead Corpse
We don't need no steenkin' study to know that this proposal is contrary to common sense as well as to the Second Amendment.

Buy time for two years, BS !!

We need somebody with the cohones to tell FatTeddy to stuff it.

The NRA, and it's director Craig, need to go back to the original Bush/NRA position -- S. 1805 needs to go forward as a "clean bill."

87 posted on 02/27/2004 3:34:40 PM PST by skip2myloo
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To: skip2myloo
Essentially, you are right. However, those results need to come back to the Senate for reconsideration before any bans would be put in place.
88 posted on 02/27/2004 3:34:51 PM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: skip2myloo
Oh... I agree with you. This smells on ice. There is no wy in hell a supposedly Free country should even be entertaining ideas like these.

The again, who is sitll suffering under the delusion that we are still free? Try and open carry a firearm ANYWHERE today and see how long it takes for the gendarmes to come ask you what you are doing. I live in Austin, TX and I wouldn't care to try it. So much for the cowboy mythos. ;-)

There is still time before the vote for them to reconsider the amendment. Failing that, there is still the committee. Failing that, there is still the President who clearly stated that he wanted a "clean" bill. Not holding my breath that Rove will give George back his Veto stamp, but you never know. He has to break it in sometime, may as well be on this core issue.

Failing all of that... it very well could be hog feedin' time. Again. For the upmteenth time.

89 posted on 02/27/2004 3:39:35 PM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: skip2myloo
seems like the democrats are calculating on the 2006 off year election to make gains.

(S) Who is going to pay for this group? How can democrats compalin about spending and then spend on this pointles excersice? (/s)
90 posted on 02/27/2004 3:42:10 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Dead Corpse
Yes, but to use an old cliche applied to Ted Kennedy so often, I don't want to drive off that bridge when we get to it.

I want to attack and destroy these amendments NOW based on their lack of merit and not have to resolve the matter later when it goes for final mark up or to the House.

91 posted on 02/27/2004 3:42:43 PM PST by skip2myloo
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To: petro45acp
Your emails and phone calls from the NRA about a "clean" Bill 1805 didn't go anything like this did they?:

Now the NRA says "Passage of S. 1805 is critical -- but not worth allowing legislation going to the President including either an extension of the Clinton gun ban or restrictions at gun shows. There will be no compromise. The only choice is a "clean" bill or no bill."

This sounds good, and if they left it there I would feel better about what the NRA is doing. However they went on to say "While we are uncertain of the outcome of several pending anti- gun amendments in the Senate, the House is strongly pro-gun and it (or a conference committee) will not accept any anti-gun Senate- passed amendment as part of the final product to be sent to the President."

In other words we are going to give our supporters in the Senate a pass on voting for a "gun control" version of the bill, and then hope it gets fixed later.

This is exactly how we got the "Campaign Finance Reform" bill.

Everyone said "it will get fixed in the House".

Then it was "it will get fixed in Conference".

Then it was "the President will never sign this".

And lastly "the courts will throw this out".

Well guess what? None of those things happened once the Senate passed that bill.

Now the NRA is facing the biggest financial crisis in their history because they did not fight harder to stop this when it still could be stopped.

Did the NRA change their official ratings to negative of those who voted _for_ the CFR bill? Will they change their official ratings to negative of those who vote _for_ S1805 now that it contains "an extension of the Clinton gun ban" AND "restrictions at gun shows".

Do they really mean "The only choice is a "clean" bill or no bill" ?

Best regards,

92 posted on 02/27/2004 3:44:36 PM PST by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Ah, changing your tune about your fellow NRA-clown Craig, eh? Looks like you owe many here an apology. Next time don't be so quick to run off at the mouth, boy.
93 posted on 02/27/2004 3:46:58 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Dead Corpse; Shooter 2.5
Here in Virginia, you can't carry concealed into a restaurant that sells alcohol, but you can carry openly. I know, its insane.

A lot of folks have started carrying openly in restaurants just to make an issue of this idiotic distinction. Go to http://www.vcdl.org for more info if interested.

But, the point is, we're succeeding with open carry here in the Peoples Republic of Northern Virginia just across the river from your nation's anti-gun capital.

I think we're gonna have to call for defeat of S. 1805 because we couldn't keep it under control.

The NRA has abandoned us today because it appears their own Director, Craig, has abandoned the cause and they don't want to admit it.

Hopefully, somebody like Endowment Member Shooter 2.5, is keeping them abreast of the discontent among us braves out here on the reservation.

94 posted on 02/27/2004 3:52:31 PM PST by skip2myloo
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To: gatex
They said Senator Craig is sponsoring legislation "to prohibit possession and sale of armor piercing ammunition."

If possession is included I'm in trouble. I bought significant quantities of 7.62x39 steel core (which was later banned from sale as armor piercing) a few years back when it got down to less than 70 bucks a case delivered. I'd hate to spend all day, every day, at the range for the next several months trying to shoot it all up.

I'll bet lots of other people (Freeper or not) have got a lot of this stuff too.

95 posted on 02/27/2004 4:00:56 PM PST by templar
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To: Copernicus
This is what the NRA actually said to all the Senators yesterday. Take Special note of Paragraph 3 and note the result was the Boxer Gun Lock Amendment to S. 1805: (they were telling the Senate they wouldn't oppose an amendment, but telling us members they wanted a "clean bill").

VIA http://www.packing.org

Subject: NRA Positions on Amendments to S. 1805

Attachments:

February 26, 2004

Dear Senator:

As you know, during consideration of S. 1805, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, the Senate has agreed to debate a long and complex series of amendments. This letter will explain the NRA’s position on those amendments as briefly as possible, in the order in which those amendments will be considered under the unanimous consent agreement.

The NRA’s overriding priority in consideration of this bill is the same as that expressed in the Statement of Administration Position issued by the White House on February 24: “to pass a clean bill, in order to ensure enactment of the legislation this year.” All of our positions will be consistent with that view.

[Emphasis added] NRA does not oppose a gun lock amendment that is consistent with our position during the 1999 juvenile justice debate; i.e., an amendment that requires dealers to provide safe storage devices with guns, provided that penalties for minor or inadvertent violations are not overly harsh, and individual gun owners who use these devices are protected from liability for use of stolen guns. Language would also need to be updated to reflect current industry practices in this field.

· NRA does not oppose an amendment recognizing national handgun carry reciprocity for off-duty and retired law enforcement officers. In principle, NRA supports this legislation and would also like reciprocity extended to licensed private citizens.

· NRA opposes an ammunition ban amendment. The standard proposed by Sen. Kennedy was rejected in the 1980s as overly broad and unnecessary to meet any threat posed to law enforcement officers’ safety. The issue was also thoroughly studied from 1996-1997 by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who found that no officer in the U.S. “who was wearing a bullet-resistant vest died as a result of any round of ammunition having been fired from a handgun, penetrating that officer’s armor causing the primary lethal injuries.” The report concluded, “no additional legislation regarding such laws is necessary.” Nothing has changed to justify passage of the proposed standard-a standard that would effectively ban all hunting rifle ammunition sold and used in the United States. The Fraternal Order of Police also opposes this amendment.

· NRA opposes any amendments on non-germane issues such as unemployment insurance and voting rights. While these may be important issues to many, they are outside the scope of this bill and will inhibit or delay its enactment.

· NRA very strongly opposes any amendment carving out specific lawsuits or classes of plaintiffs for protection under the bill. One of the strengths of S. 1805 is that it adopts the same rules for all plaintiffs, no matter how sympathetic or unsympathetic. If a lawsuit has enough merit (under traditional tort standards) to be allowed by this bill, we believe that cause of action should be available to all plaintiffs-regardless of their occupation or which particular attacker did them harm. In fact, any “carveout” amendment poses a great risk that an anti-gun judge could choose to allow lawsuits by plaintiffs who are not mentioned in the bill, but who are in some way similarly situated to those given special favor in the amendment. These amendments would gut S.1805, rendering it ineffective.

· NRA very strongly opposes new restrictions on gun shows. While anti-gun activists demonize these events, the evidence from government studies continues to show that criminals acquire fewer than 2% of their guns through gun shows. Furthermore, proposed legislation would create red tape at the discretion of the government that would serve only to choke these shows out of existence. Finally, legislation that would ban gun shows does not enjoy support in the House, where proposals in 1999 were defeated by the most extreme wing of anti-gun Representatives. Therefore, this amendment could jeopardize the passage of S.1805.

· NRA very strongly opposes any amendment reenacting the 1994 Clinton Gun Ban. NRA opposed this legislation in 1994 because there was no legitimate statistical basis at all for banning guns owned by millions of Americans for totally legitimate purposes of defense, sport or collecting. No new evidence has surfaced since then; in fact, police reports, academic studies mandated by the law, and follow-up work by the same authors have continued to show virtually no use of these guns in crime. This amendment could jeopardize passage of S.1805.

· NRA supports the D.C. gun ban repeal. Under this bill, District citizens would enjoy the same self-defense rights as residents of the other 50 states. The amendment would allow honest citizens to own rifles, shotguns and handguns, without the current bureaucratic registration requirements. It would also allow law-abiding people to use guns to protect their homes and families. The amendment would not affect any law directed at true criminal conduct, and would leave in place strict penalties for gun possession by criminals and for violent crime committed with guns. While not directly related to liability issues, this amendment helps restore Americans’ Second Amendment rights; the passage of similar legislation in the House in 1999 and the strong current cosponsorship of a similar bill (H.R. 3193) indicate that its adoption would not seriously jeopardize chances of passing S. 1807.

We appreciate your serious consideration of our positions on these varied issues. We also need to note that votes on this bill, and on its amendments, will be taken into consideration and publicized to our members during our candidate evaluations for future elections.

As always, we look forward to working with you on these votes, and if you have any questions or concerns, please contact our Federal Affairs division at (202) 651-2560.

Sincerely,

Chris W. Cox

Executive Director

NRA Institute for Legislative Action

To be fair, they DID SAY they opposed an ammo ban amendment, but they can't even keep their own Director in concert with them. I think the NRA is losing it's effectiveness.

96 posted on 02/27/2004 4:05:36 PM PST by skip2myloo
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To: JennysCool
I am sorry I over reacted to an innocent comment.
97 posted on 02/27/2004 5:18:04 PM PST by nygoose
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To: skip2myloo
Many thanks. I have had conversations with Mr. Cox about his legislative strategies.

The NRA is not losing their effectiveness so much as they repeatedly get caught playing both sides of the fence to the dismay of the people who think they receive the "straight" dope only to discover the larger 2nd Amendment Community does not support NRA tactics and policies.

Just as the RINOs need to be flushed out of the Republican National Committee (and the White House for that matter)the GINOs (GunOwners In Name Only) need to be flushed out of the NRA.

Many thanks for your help.

Best regards,

98 posted on 02/27/2004 6:34:44 PM PST by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: jocko12
Speaking of ammendments

We could sure use an ammendment protecting our right to keep and bear arms....
99 posted on 02/27/2004 7:08:49 PM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: joesnuffy; All
Congratulations folks! We made it to 100 without a single post "removed by moderator".

I'm very proud of you all!

Best regards,

100 posted on 02/27/2004 7:24:39 PM PST by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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