'That's what it's come to . . . We see children who are adult oriented as being aberrant'

The Globe and Mail ^ | Saturday, January 31, 2004 | ALANNA MITCHELL

[AntiKev]

As a preface to this post, I'm going to say a little about myself. I'm a 17 year old male, in grade 12. I'm living in a Canadian border town of about 250 to 300 thousand people. I live with my dad, my sister with my mom. I am a member of my local Air Cadet squadron (similar to the Civil Air Patrol, except we are *officially* a civilian organization, if you want to know more PM me) through which I achieved both my Glider Pilot and Private Pilot licenses.

Before I talk about this particular group at school, let me start by saying that my school is considered the "brainy" school in the city. We have the only "enriched" or "gifted" program in the city and I take "enriched" classes. The school has a disproportionately large group of Middle Eastern students, as well as a disproportionately large group of Asian students. I would guess the population at about 30% from the Middle East, 30% from the Far East, and 30% of European descent. This may help to explain my comments below.

They look identical, right down to the silhouette, the colours, the long hair, the heavy eye liner and thick makeup.

And that's the root of the problem isn't it? They look identical, they feel identical, they're fake. Of the 30% of the students at my school of "European" descent I would say a good third to half fall into this category. They cause me the most grief. I look at them and think about how they can lie to themselves like that. Of course this group also includes the requisite "jocks" who share the same sort of qualities. For anyone here who still watches mainstream media, these are the kind of people you see depicted on MTV...completely self-absorbed and oblivious to anything but themselves.

Fiddling slightly with the metal in her pierced lower lip

This is another group that I just don't get, they make up another quarter of the 30%. Why? I just don't understand the whole self-mutilation thing.

The final part of the 30% are people like me. Well, and you may call me a hypocrite for saying this, they're not like me. There is no one I know quite like me. Most of the people that I know and associate with are sheep. They go with the herd, no matter what.

A very good friend of mine has constantly egged me on to have "just one beer" (yes, I know, underage drinking...) when I'm driving. I always refuse, I've got too much to lose. Every time we're out, he asks me, "Please, just have one beer." I politely refuse the first time, but if he continues I get quite hostile, he only has his beginner's permit, but has stated that he will have "just one beer" when he gets his license. And I have said that I won't ever drive with him. I tell him to his face that he is irresponsible, but he doesn't care. And that's fine. To each his own, but I'd like to think that I have at least one thread of moral fiber left.

My friend is typical of today's teens. I am not. He follows the crowd, but says he doesn't. He dresses, acts, and all around is like them. I have bigger plans.

Sorry about the rant...but this is one of the few topics I can speak from experience on. Phew, this was by far my longest post ever on FR.

[Lil'freeper]

bookmarked

[Jaysun]

The idea seems logical, but if it were really the cause of the problem, why hasn't it always been that way? Why didn't the kids of past generations murder, plunder, and pierce everything that they could reach? It's not their peers, in my opinion, it's their total lack of respect for their parents, for authority, and for God. How did that happen? The school agenda of today is not to teach morals, right from wrong, respect for authority, and certainly not anything about God. Kids are encouraged to "be themselves". They aren't pushed to excellence or disciplined for fear that their "self esteem" might be damaged. In your case, I would suspect that you have a good family that has seen to it that you had a good foundation so that you'd grow to be a fine and responsible man. Sounds to me as if they were successful.

[garbanzo]

And they certainly feel no obligation to explain themselves to an adult in a shopping mall.

I feel no obligation to explain myself to adults either. How about an obligation to leave other people alone or let kids be kids?

[garbanzo]

Why didn't the kids of past generations murder, plunder, and pierce everything that they could reach?

Who says the kids of today are? FBI stats indicate that juvenile violence is at a twenty-year low. I think kids are somewhat more independent of parents (cars, urbanization, mass transit, etc) and have a greater space to experiment with different things but overall this image of the youth out of control is more fearmongering by the usual powerhungry sources.

[tet68]

Glider pilot huh, kewl.
Welcome to FR.
Remember to proofread your posts and don't pay too much attention to anyone that "flames" you.

[mountaineer]

There is no one I know quite like me. Most of the people that I know and associate with are sheep.

Thus has it ever been, AK - I felt the same way about my high school peers a few decades ago. Maintain that autonomy, and never let the "flock" make your choices for you!

[AntiKev]

Why didn't the kids of past generations murder, plunder, and pierce everything that they could reach?

Short answer, and I think I stated it in my first post, is that they're sheep.

Long answer, and I've had this discussion with someone in my family, probably my mom, is that some people can't differentiate between the virtual world and the real world. Example, television violence, most people my age watch lots of TV. Most watch stuff that's basically mind-numbing. I like shows that have some sort of plot (except the Simpsons, hold that thought for a second). I watch Law & Order, CSI, and NYPD Blue on a regular basis. Basically the only other shows I watch are on Discovery Wings channel or the Discovery Channel (gotta have the gearheads of Monster Garage and American Chopper). See...now I've gone off on a tangent and lost my train of thought.

The point is, many people my age watch violence on TV or play so-called violent video games and can't differentiate it from the real world. That's where we get the fringe groups like Columbine et al. They see it and they absorb it as if it's real, and althought they may know it's not real, their brain can't differentiate it from anything else because they don't think about it.

I agree that a majority of people my age show no respect to their elders. Another example of a kid I went to grade school with. We have the best math teacher, probably in the country, and we're his last class. My friend continually comes in late to class, and when our teacher tells him that he has a ten minute detention at lunch he says something to me like "I don't see why he's so stupid." I have to try to keep from staring at him wide-eyed and saying "are you really dumb as a post?"

This teacher teaches both Calculus and Algebra, at the "enriched" level, two classes of each. He has a policy that if you have a spare during the other class of that math you can go to either your scheduled class or the other one, as long as you go to one. My friend decided that he wanted to have a double spare in the morning and so he told the teacher that he would be going to the afternoon algebra class from now on. The second day of that he skipped both classes and the teacher stated to our class that he won't play that game, and continued to mark the student absent. I told my friend about it and he said "I told him that I was going to the other class, why is he so dumb?"

Complete lack of respect for our elders. Check. It's sad, it really is.

[Jaysun]

Who says the kids of today are? FBI stats indicate that juvenile violence is at a twenty-year low. I think kids are somewhat more independent of parents (cars, urbanization, mass transit, etc) and have a greater space to experiment with different things but overall this image of the youth out of control is more fearmongering by the usual powerhungry sources.

"Youth violence has been one of the greatest single crime problems we face in this country," said Attorney General Janet Reno. September 6, 2000
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel00/school.htm

Victimization in the nation’s schools has decreased since 1992, according to a new report by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and the Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics. Indicators of School Crime and Safety, 2001 reports that, between 1992 and 1999, violent victimization rates at schools generally declined from 48 crimes per 1,000 students ages 12 through 18 to 33 per 1,000 students. Data also indicates that, between 1995 and 1999, the percentage of students who said they were the victims of any crime of violence or theft at school decreased from 10 to 8 percent.

During 1999, students were victims of about 2.5 million crimes at school, 1.6 million thefts, and 880,000 nonfatal violent crimes, including about 186,000 serious violent crimes (rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault). In comparison, students were victims of 2.1 million crimes away from school: 1 million thefts and 1.1 million nonfatal violent crimes, including 476,000 serious violent crimes.

Over the 1995-1999 period, teachers were the victims of 1,708,000 nonfatal crimes at school, including 1,073,000 thefts and 635,000 violent crimes. On a per teacher basis, this translates to 79 crimes per 1,000 teachers annually.
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2002/mar02leb.htm


Does that look peachy to you? Who are the "usual powerhungry sources" that you mentioned?

[AntiKev]

Welcome to FR.

Thanks. :D...check my profile though. Been around since mid 2000. Actually earlier, but my account was deleted for some reason early on and I re-registered.

[AntiKev]

Maintain that autonomy, and never let the "flock" make your choices for you!

That's the idea.

[Cicero]

Nothing very new in teenagers hanging around together, although the degree of conformity increased after the 60s, probably. And it's even more noticeable when they are trying to be nonconformist conformists.

If some adult came up to me when I was a teenager and started asking me psychological questions, I'd have told him to get lost, too. Or, as Flannery O'Connor would have said, "None of your bidness."

[garbanzo]

Does that look peachy to you?

As compared to what - the Garden of Eden? I only claimed that violence is today low relative to near history (at least in the past 10 not twenty years). There was never an ideal time and in a country of 300 million people you're going to get some bad eggs.

Who are the "usual powerhungry sources" that you mentioned?

Typically people who misuse statistics to increase their power and authority to solve non-existent problems.

[Jaysun]

As compared to what - the Garden of Eden? I only claimed that violence is today low relative to near history (at least in the past 10 not twenty years). There was never an ideal time and in a country of 300 million people you're going to get some bad eggs.

As compared to the time before the NEA. As compared to the time when teachers taught subjects and not liberalism and self esteem. As compared to the time before "free education".

Typically people who misuse statistics to increase their power and authority to solve non-existent problems.

I can't think of who has tried to do that in the area of youth violence. There is a noticable difference between tennagers of today and the teenagers of 15 years ago. They haven't been on an improvement trend in a host of areas.

[garbanzo]

As compared to the time before the NEA.

And the evidence for this is?

There is a noticable difference between tennagers of today and the teenagers of 15 years ago.

Except in terms of fashion, I disagree. Kids are pretty much the same as they always were. Wally Cleaver was a fictional character not a realistic depiction of how teenagers used to behave.

[sweetliberty]

"In other words, it's game over at birth. All the hugs, music lessons, bedtime reading, homework homilies and walks through the park make no real difference in the long run."

Hogwash.

[BiffWondercat]

You go on with your good self! Your peers need apologies far more than you, it would seem....

[sweetliberty]

You are to be commended for your independence. Don't ever apologize for it. It sounds like you have your head screwed on better than many people twice your age and you will be better off for it.

[Jeff Gordon]

ALANNA MITCHELL does not handle rejection very well.