Georgia may shun 'evolution' in schools

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 1/29/2004 | MARY MacDONALD

[Blzbba]

"It is possible for people to be evolutionist and believe in God"


I'm of the evolutionist belief and see God's detail hidden behind its amazing aspects. I've often wondered why this is such a blasphemous premise to many people. After all, the Bible mentions the 4 pillars of the earth, yet even the most devout, fundamental Biblical Christian no longer believes in the flat-earth theory that statement implies.

[PatrickHenry]

As predicted, the creationoid propaganda machine is swinging into action:
National Think-Tank, Discovery Institute Reports Georgia Schools Should Teach More About Evolution Not Less.

"Think Tank" indeed. Note the deliberately misleading title of their press release. However, their spokesman says: ""They need to be presenting the scientific evidence both for and against Darwin's theory. There is a growing controversy among scientists ... " Blah, blah, blah.

[Gargantua]

"There is? By all means, please present it."
"What might that 'provable truth' be?"

Nothing I can say will make God's Truth more apparent to those who refuse to see, but it not only surrounds you every minute of every day of your life...

...you yourselves are part of it as well.

May you open the eyes God gave you to His eternal Truth, and should you not, may God have mercy upon your eternal souls.

;-/

[VadeRetro]

"Think tank?" Try "PR machine."

[balrog666]

Genesis is fine for itinerant Palestinian goat herders. Move on.

Good line.

[Blzbba]

"Nothing I can say will make God's Truth more apparent to those who refuse to see,"


That may be true, but then - the Bible mentions the 4 pillars of the earth, implying a flat-earth belief. Surely you don't believe that, do you?

The Lord works in mysterious ways. Being a mere mortal, I don't purport to knowing or understanding them, as that suggests a certain degree of Pride, which is forbidden/warned-against in scripture.

[Gargantua]

[God] shall send a helper, and this is the Holy Spirit, which will aid men in understanding the Word, and the Heart, and the Mind of God.

If you've read the Bible, and come away with a belief that it suggests a "flat earth", then your capacity for misunderstanding and inattention speaks volumes.

One of the prophets in the Bible was borne up into space, and described seeing the Earth hanging suspended in the heavens like a "lush, ripe fruit."

Sound "flat" to you? Me neither.

The more you argue against the Truth, the deeper the hole you dig yourself into. I will not, as a believer, contribute to your eternal fate by encouraging your continued blasphemy in further discourse.

You know the Truth, and you only speak against it at your own peril.

;-/

[Dimensio]

I guess I am going to have to spell it out for you, 'it looks that way to me' means Y.E.S.!!

Okay, then, prove it. It should be incredibly easy. Go back to any old crevo discussion here on FR and point out someone who was supporting creationism in that discussion who is bashing it in this particular discussion.

Such an incredibly simple proof, I do hope that you won't chicken out.

[Dimensio]

Nothing I can say will make God's Truth more apparent to those who refuse to see, but it not only surrounds you every minute of every day of your life...

In other words, it's not "provable truth", it is just your subjective opinion -- one that is not shared by the majority of the planet.

Why didn't you just say that in the first place?

[Dimensio]

Evolution is an hypothesis, not a theory.

Evolution (honestly, I prefer using "common descent theory", and sticking with "change in allele frequency over time" as the definition of "evolution", but that's becuase I nitpick) makes predictions, has tests for these predictions and has defined observations that would falsify it. That and the fact that it invokes nothing supernatural means that it satisfies the definition of a theory.

You not liking it does not make it less of a theory.

[Gargantua]

"...the Bible mentions the 4 pillars of the earth, implying a flat-earth..."

It does? Really? What chapter and verse do you claim makes this representation?

Prove your point... or admit your lie.

;-/

[realpatriot71]

Evolution MUST exist as the biological and scientific counterpart to the economics of socialism, to the sociology of the Welfare State, the culture of death (euthanasia, abortion), etc

Bingo. Why does the liberal establishment push evolution as hard as they do? Why the resistance to even mentioning other ideas on origins, and forget about even having one lecture that discusses dissenting ideas and opinions, not in public schools.

"Let me control the textbooks, and I will control the state." - Hitler

"Give me your four year olds, and in a generation I will build a Socialist state." - Lenin

"In order to capture this nation, one has to totally remove moral and spiritual values and absolutes from the thinking of the child. The child has to think that there is no standard of right and wrong, that truth is relative, and that diversity is the only absolute to be gained." - American Humanist Association

[Dimensio]

In order to make a statement like that it should be OBVIOUS that I have examined the "evidence" and evolutionary facts are "dammed".

Gee, sorry. Given that you didn't address a single issue with evolution but rather dismissed the whole theory out of hand, you might want to work on making your point a little more OBVIOUS.

No clear thinking person who is objective will deny that evolution is merely a theory with NO facts to support it.

Again, you say this, but you offer nothing to support it. I can easily say "No clear thinking person who is objective will deny that Christianity is just a sham with NO facts to support it.", but my saying it does not make it true.

If you would like to believe that people were derived from apes.

More like humans and apes had a common ancestor. If you can't even get that right, why should I believe that you've studied anything with respect to evolution?

Order came out of chaos.

Huh? What does this have to do with anything? If you're bringing up non-sequiturs like this, why should I believe that you've studied anything with respect to evolution?

We're still "evolving".

Actually, humans have done quite a bit toward preventing evolution from occuring within the species lately, because we've learned to greatly control our environment. Given that evolution is driven by a subset within a population being better able to survive and reproduce in a given environment, but we're able to alter our environment so that nearly everyone is able to survive and reproduce, we've done a great deal in preventing evolution from occuring. This isn't to say that evolution won't still occur in humans, but it will take much longer for any real noticable changes to appear within the species.

Not that I understand what this has to do with disproving evolution.

Life comes from inanimate molecules

Irrelevant to evolution. If you're bringing up non-sequiturs like this, why should I believe that you've studied anything with respect to evolution?

and on and on the illogical theory goes

Thus far you've not demonstrated a single logical problem with evolution theory. You have, at best, presented elements that you "don't like" (some of which aren't part of evolution theory, others you have grossly misstated) and attempted an argument from ridicule.

There have been sooo many threads on this.

Yes, and in so many there are very few (though there are some) creationists who seem capable of offering any intelligent or insightful commentary. Typically they're filled with inane banter, streams of logical fallacies and the occasional (or not-so-occasional for some) personal attack.

I suggest you look one up and for once learn what evolution really is. It's a joke.

If you think that discussions on FR are the sole source of information on the theory of evolution (and especially since you seem to ignore all but the posts by creationists), it's no wonder that your understanding of evolution is so poor.

As for me, I'm not going to waste my time on it.

Well, you seemed to find the time to post a completely inane rant on how the theory is "stupid" without actually showing what is wrong with it.

[Dimensio]

Why does the liberal establishment push evolution as hard as they do?

You misspelled "scientific". Hope this helps.

Why the resistance to even mentioning other ideas on origins, and forget about even having one lecture that discusses dissenting ideas and opinions, not in public schools.

The problem is that a number of crackpots want to insert "alternatives" to evolution into science classrooms even though not a one of these "alternatives" is actually scientific in nature.

"Let me control the textbooks, and I will control the state." - Hitler

Oh, dear. Godwin invoked.

[whattajoke]

Why the resistance to even mentioning other ideas on origins, and forget about even having one lecture that discusses dissenting ideas and opinions, not in public schools.

You answered your own question with the term, "public schools." Public schools serve in a non religious capacity. Again, I need to ask you, are you aware of the multitude of various origins myths? In our country alone, you have who knows how many native american myths, let alone the hundreds, if not thousands, of various religious creation stories. They are all fine for church or pow wows, but not for the classroom.

Hitler... Lenin... Humanism...

sigh. Godwin has been breached. I'm sorry to say you have now shown yourself to be irrelevant.

[realpatriot71]

You misspelled "scientific". Hope this helps.

No, I spelled it "liberal" because it is true. Why do you think the ACLU fights for evolution every chance it gets? It's a liberal institution with a liberal axe to grind. You're the one with the strange bedfellow, not me.

The problem is that a number of crackpots want to insert "alternatives" to evolution into science classrooms even though not a one of these "alternatives" is actually scientific in nature.

I see, so even the mention that there is alternate ideas. You can't mention, even once, that some people examine what is objective and say because its so perfect it couldn't have happen the way "science" says that it did? What's unscientific about that?

But I understand why you fight so hard against it. No one likes to have their cherished beliefs challeged, so it's understandable.

[realpatriot71]

I'm sorry to say you have now shown yourself to be irrelevant.

Really? So you deny that the goal of socialist-communist-humanist governemnts and organizations is to remove any mention of God from society at large? What's one way to accomplish this? Well, obviously, construct a scientific theory that takes God out of the equation, teach it to the children, and they'll stop believing. You're the "conservative" in bed with communist doctrine, not me.

[ought-six]

Where is Clarence Darrow? I thought this kind a crap only occurred in Dayton, Tennessee in 1925!

[Dimensio]

Why do you think the ACLU fights for evolution every chance it gets?

They fight against the "alternatives", because the proposed "alternatives" are always religious in nature.

I see, so even the mention that there is alternate ideas.

Feel free to mention that there are "alternate" ideas that are totally unscientific in nature.

You can't mention, even once, that some people examine what is objective and say because its so perfect it couldn't have happen the way "science" says that it did?

Sure you can mention that. Just don't pretend that it's a scientific conclusion, and don't try teaching it as science.

But I understand why you fight so hard against it. No one likes to have their cherished beliefs challeged, so it's understandable.

Yes, it is hard for me to fight against creationists who react so harshly because they feel threatened by their cherished beliefs being challenged when reality completely contradicts them.

[Dimensio]

So you deny that the goal of socialist-communist-humanist governemnts and organizations is to remove any mention of God from society at large? What's one way to accomplish this? Well, obviously, construct a scientific theory that takes God out of the equation, teach it to the children, and they'll stop believing.

Absolutely no scientific theory includes any gods in the equation. You're just taking one that you don't like and claiming that it's part of some conspiracy because of that fact.

Evolution came about because it was the best explanation to fit observed evidence. It was not invented out of thin air as a justification for a completely secular worldview. If you want to argue that evolution is wrong, then point out where the theory is in error. Lying about the very origin of the theory does not hurt anyone's credibility but your own.