[Prodigal Son]

There were three drowned in a roll over of two Strykers into a caanal before the Brigade even commenced operations. That should be enough dead kids to point out to the Army that bolting on 5,200 pounds of "slat armor" ABOVE an already high center of gravity is suicide for the kids in them.

Well, to be fair, you could drown in any vehicle that went into the water- M113, Hummer, 5 ton truck, Bradley...

You are correct. Nobody lost their lives to the IED but one did lose a foot and we lost a $4 milion Stryker. Is that a win?

The thing is, we're not God. We can't see what might have happened to the same soldier who lost his foot had he been in a different vehicle. If he had been in a different vehicle and lost his life- not just his foot- then I say, yes, the fact that he was in a Stryker and only lost a foot as opposed to his life is a victory.

Also, they're not kids. I wasn't a kid when I served and I'm quite sure these men in Iraq wouldn't like being thought of as kids either. They're men. Grown up men.

[archy]

There were three drowned in a roll over of two Strykers into a caanal before the Brigade even commenced operations. That should be enough dead kids to point out to the Army that bolting on 5,200 pounds of "slat armor" ABOVE an already high center of gravity is suicide for the kids in them.

Well, to be fair, you could drown in any vehicle that went into the water- M113, Hummer, 5 ton truck, Bradley...

If a M113 goes into the water, upside down, you can kick open the door in the back ramp and get out, even though the ramp can't be lowered [gravity works against you when it's upside-down, as the Strykers that crumbled the Iraqi river bank, rolled over and went in upside-down were. And the rear doors had been chained shut, preventing the crews from accompanying vehicles from getting the trapped survivors out in time. And Bradleys at least have an escape hatch in the floor at the driver's position.

The XM1117 military police Armored Support Vehicle, designed for the MP task of convoy escorts, mounts a turret fitting BOTH a .50 M2 AND a Mk 19 grenade launcher up top- so side exits that can be opened with the vehicle on its side, upside down, or under fire from one flank were provided, a feature the Soviets also have on their BTR 80/90 8-wheeled cars, lacking on their earlier models- and found to be a serious shortcoming during fighting in Angola, Afghanistan and Chechnya. The XM1117 also included a rear exit, though not primarily intended as an infantry vehicle- let the enemy gunners try to guess which exit those inside might use before the .50 and 40mm open up on them, rather than giving them a single easy target.

We haven't learned thatr lesson with the Stynkers yet. More American soldiers have to die first.