More EU countries "voice concern" re: (a.k.a. refuse) armed guards on US-bound flights

BBC On-Line ^ | Tuesday, 6 January, 2004

[yankeedame]

These pilots need to stop whining and grow up. Probably the only thing that would change their minds is for one of their aircraft to be taken down by terrorists. Then we'll see what they think about it.

IMHO, they would move heaven and earth twisting the story every which way but lose to find a way to say, "So you see, an armed guard wouldn't have helped anyway."

[yankeedame]

A large ring of keys on the end of a leather belt will make a nifty flail.

I've also heard that you get a #1 (or is it #3? Help me out here, someone) lead pencil. It's the one w/ the very hard lead. You sharpening them to a needle point and then tuck them away in your shirt pocket. No one is going to question/ban some guy carrying pencils in his pocket (protecter).

Then, if threatened you taken one of the pencils and rake the guy's forhead, which will bleed like Niagra Falls. This give you time to make an escape, or make you next move.

[Professional Engineer]

#3 would be harder.

Pencils, pens, keys. heh heh

nail clippers aren't nearly as useful. LOL

[Prodigal Son]

If you get one of those nice little rucksacks as a carry-on, one with a grab handle on the top, a nice hardback book inside also makes a half way decent mace. Swing it by the handle.

[Michael81Dus]

Can't say I'd be sad if Euros stayed home.

Just damned. I have already booked my flights. Shall I cancel them?

Note to all others: surprisingly, France, Germany and Canada have announced that these countries have no problems by having sky marshals on board of their planes. The German government already sends sky marshals on flights at risk since winter 2001, and Lufthansa has confirmed that many of their transatlantic flights are escorted by these armed security specialists.

I have no problems with sky marshals, as long they´re not required for every flight (that would be a waste of money and time of our security personnel), but for special/riskful flights.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Excellent. See? It isn't that hard.

[Michael81Dus]

Excellent. See? It isn't that hard.

LOL. I often explained here that we stand on the right side in the war on terrorism, and that it was "just" the Iraq war my government (and people) couldn´t agree with.

Another question is the following: The US government requires all visa-waiver-program-states (such like Japan, all EU member states except Greece) to issue passports with biometric datas from Oct 26 2004 on.

BUT: there´s no agreement which datas and how these should be included in the passports. Old passports will be valid for access to the US until they expire, but the Washington threatens to exclude countries from the Visa-waiver-program if they don´t issue passports with biometric datas from that date on. How can countries do - the way it should be isn´t published nor negotiated with the visa-waiver-member-states yet!?

And I can´t imagine that the US government would want that US citizens needs visa for trips up to 90 days to the EU, Japan, etc... but that would be the result if the visa-waiver-program will be stopped.

There´s will to cooperate and to fulfill the US security demands, but nobody´s perfect. My prediction: it´s likely that the requirement for biometric datas in passports will be delayed.

[americanbychoice]

Auch in der EU sollen biometrische Verfahren gegen Terrorismus und Asylmissbrauch zum Einsatz kommen. So stellt die Bundesrepublik bereits seit diesem Jahr Visa mit Fotos aus und ist damit Vorreiter in der EU. In spätestens zwei Jahren sollen nach dem Willen des EU-Ministerrats europaweit biometrische Merkmale wie Fingerabdrücke, Gesichtsfeld-Erkennung oder Irisfotos auf einem angehängten Chip im Visum gespeichert werden. Später könnten auch Reisepässe von EU-Bürgern mit biometrischen Daten versehen werden; einen Zeitplan dafür gibt es aber noch nicht.

Schon jetzt werden in der deutschen Botschaft in Lagos in Nigeria den Visum-Antragstellern Fingerabdrücke abgenommen und mit dem deutschen Asyl- und Straftäterbestand abgeglichen. Das Innenministerium berichtete jüngst von einer "beachtlichen Trefferquote" und prüft derzeit, ob das Pilotprojekt ausgeweitet wird.

Zur Bekämpfung des Asylmissbrauchs ist zudem seit Januar 2003 auf EU-Ebene das Fingerabdruck-Identifizierungssystem Eurodac in Betrieb. Europaweit werden seither von allen vermutlich illegal aus sicheren Drittstaaten eingereisten Asylbewerbern und Ausländern die Fingerabdrücke abgenommen und an die Datenbank in Luxemburg übermittelt, wo sie gespeichert und verglichen werden. Angesichts der Terrorangriffe in den USA am 11. September 2001 ist die Sicherheitslage an Flughäfen besonders kritisch. Auch hier kommt neuerdings die Biometrie zum Einsatz: Vor wenigen Wochen hat der Bundesgrenzschutz am größten deutschen Airport in Frankfurt am Main einen Augenscanner in Probebetrieb genommen, der Merkmale der Augeniris erfasst und in einer lokalen Datenbank speichert. Teilnehmen können Freiwillige aus EU-Staaten, die zuvor grenzpolizeilich überprüft und als unbedenklich eingestuft wurden. Beim nächsten Grenzübertritt sollen die Teilnehmer dann anhand ihres Iris-Profils identifiziert werden.



We shouldn't overreact to something that has been commonplace for American citizens for years. Personally, I have my Fingerprints all over the place, I have no problems with that.
Insurance agents, the SEC has for years already implemented fingerprinting as part of their licensing procedures,Doctors, etc.,etc.,etc.
Now foreigners have to identify themselves, so what? Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill?

[Skywarner]

"Our rules. Our airspace. Don't like it? Don't fly here."

For those who thought that my original comment above was FROM a whining European: it was not. It was from a firmly entrenched good 'ol American citizen who loves the US of A.

My comment was directed TO those whining Europeans who refuse to fly with an air marshall on board under any circumstance.

Sorry for any confusion. ;-)

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Sounds like the INS (or whatever they call themselves these days) has their fingerprints all over this hahahaah. In any case, If I have to get a visa to go to Europe, forget it I don't want to deal with those clowns in the visa offices again.

[Michael81Dus]

That´s the way tourists here think too...

[Michael81Dus]

Huh? It´s not that I fear identification. It´s that I want an agreement between the EU and US how the passports should look like. We´re not opposed to solutions, we want them. It´s the US-authority which hasn´t expressed clearly how we can come to an agreement regarding biometric datas in passports.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Of course, understandable. I wouldn't worry about the VWP, we need Europeans coming here and buying our stuff with their expensive Euros.

How are BWM and Daimler doing with the high Euro? I can't believe they're not losing alot of money on every car they sell over here since they haven't raised prices 50% to compensate for currency valuations.

[Michael81Dus]

As far as I´ve heard, the business people are a bit concerned. The price of $ 1.25-1.30 for one Euro is considered to be critical, but still acceptable. But if this level will be kept for months, our exports will decrease. Analysts say that the Dollar could sink to 1.40 € within the next year. OTOH several other companies enjoy the high Euro price - they can get rid off much of their $-priced debts. Therefore: time will tell us.