Kids thrive on discipline

Tucson Arizona Star ^ | 01/03/04 | Betsy Hart

[Holly_P]

Is the parenting culture poised to come to its collective senses in the new year? Well, probably not. But at least common sense is getting some attention in some quarters.

In the article "Are You a Parent or a Pushover?" in the January issue of Parents magazine, author Kellye Carter Crocker reported on a Parents survey that showed most mothers expressing "deep concern over today's discipline methods."

For starters, 88 percent said parents "let children get away with too much."

Magazine surveys may be notoriously inaccurate, but still this reveals some level of angst over how kids are being raised.

As Crocker wrote, parents may be "sensing what mounting evidence is starting to reveal: Some of the discipline strategies that have been in vogue in recent years just aren't working."

"Elaborate systems that give kids multiple chances, prolonged discussions about the 'feelings' behind bad behavior, negotiations about consequences and so on are often ineffective."

Well, excuse me, but, um, "duh."

Time magazine, in its Dec. 15 edition, ran a compelling piece titled, "Does Kindergarten Need Cops?" It was subtitled, tellingly, "The Youngest School Kids are Acting Out in Really Outrageous Ways. Why?"

As the authors, led by Claudia Wallis, put it, "Temper tantrums are nothing new in kindergarten and first grade, but the behavior of one little 6-year-old in Fort Worth, Texas, had even the most experienced staff members running for cover."

"Asked to put a toy away, the youngster began to scream. Told to calm down, she knocked over her desk and crawled under the teacher's desk, kicking it and dumping out the contents of the drawers. Then … she began hurling books at her terrified classmates, who had to be ushered from the room to safety."

A child with "oppositional defiant disorder"? Well, no. As Time revealed, this kind of outrageous behavior is escalating dramatically among so-called normal, healthy, middle-class kids, like this one.

Time reported the child-advocacy group Partnership for Children just completed a survey of child care centers, elementary schools and pediatricians throughout the Fort Worth area.

It showed 93 percent of 39 schools responding said kindergartners today "have more emotional and behavioral problems than were seen just five years ago." A majority of day-care centers, which host the tiniest tots, revealed that "incidents of rage and anger" have increased over the past three years.

Ronald Stephens, director of the National School Safety Center in Westlake Village, Calif., said this is true across the country. He told Time, "Violence is getting younger and younger."

Time cited such problems as "economic stress," though youngsters have lived through far more stressful times without 3-year-olds stabbing classmates with forks, as the authors describe one tyke doing.

Time suggested there may be too much time in child care, a politically incorrect but at least sane observation, and the authors looked to academic pressure, though it's helpful to note that's waxed and waned for a century.

The authors largely blamed violence in the media. Well, OK. But then why do many kids who see the same images not act this way, and how is it then that adult criminal activity has been on a significant downward spiral for years?

What the Time authors didn't do is give anything more than a glancing nod to parents and how they raise their kids.

Talk about a root cause.

As Ronald Simons, a sociologist at the University of Georgia in Athens, told Parents: "Without structure, children become self-absorbed, selfish and unhappy - and they make everyone around them miserable, too."

He cited studies that show kids raised by authoritative parents, meaning loving moms and dads who set firm limits and stick to them, "excel academically, develop better social skills, feel good about themselves and are happier overall" than peers raised by lax or excessively harsh parents.

Interestingly, Simons echoed other research that finds the longer the child behaves poorly the more permissive parents become, setting in place a terrible cycle that ends - who knows where? With a healthy 6-year-old attacking her teacher?

I call it a modern-day commitment to the "cult of the always-contented child." We parents are committed to our own pleasure and to the constant pleasure of our kids, too.

We worry they won't like us if we give them anything less. Tragically, we don't worry about the consequences of sending them down such a self-destructive path.

In more technical terms, Simons told Parents, "There's an (unfortunate) fear that it's traumatic for a child to be disciplined and to hear 'no' too often."

Ah, a slim ray of common-sense advice on parenting. 2004 may already be looking up.

[annyokie]

I had a two year old run up and push me in the Smoke Shop today. Mama said, "now, darling,you know you aren't to push anyone."

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[Prime Choice]

"Asked to put a toy away, the youngster began to scream. Told to calm down, she knocked over her desk and crawled under the teacher's desk, kicking it and dumping out the contents of the drawers. Then … she began hurling books at her terrified classmates, who had to be ushered from the room to safety."

How times have changed. Back when I was in school, if a kid acted out like this, they were the ones hauled out of class...and by their ear!

Thanks to the Liberals, everyone but the unruly ones are pulled out of class. Yet another shining example of the socialist tripe the Left forces on us.

[netmilsmom]

Did the mother apologize?
If not, as my black sister would say, "Pick up the child and hit the mother with him."

[Holly_P]

Back when I was in school, if a kid acted out like this, they were the ones hauled out of class

I am 18 years old and that would have been so in my school too. (That the offender was punished - Not the rest of the class)

My experience is not typical though, as I did not attend public school.

[Prime Choice]

I had a two year old run up and push me in the Smoke Shop today. Mama said, "now, darling,you know you aren't to push anyone."

Had a similar situation back some time ago. I was at an arcade playing games with my younger brother in tow. I was absorbed in the game when all the sudden I felt a fist punch me in the side.

It really hurt, and I thought it was my brother rough-housing a bit too much, so I spun around and sent my fist hurtling toward what would have been my brother's midriff.

I nailed this six-year-old kid right between the eyes. Sent him straight to the floor. The look of shock on his face told the whole story: he thought he was supposed to be able to do whatever he wanted and get away with it. And someone (me) had just lowered the boom (albeit unintentionally).

Later learned that the kid was a real terror. Funny, he was always very respectful to me after that day... ; )

[netmilsmom]

>>I am 18 years old<<

You are not.
All I gotta say Ms. Holly is you find the best articles. For a newbie, you post more than I do.
*Big Hug*

[Palladin]

My simple advice: bring back spanking! Children under the age of seven or eight (what was formerly called the "age of reason"), are little more than two-legged animals. They can be conditioned to behave well much as dogs can. Reward good behavior; punish bad behavior with a good smart spank on the bottom.

I have just spent seven days with two very badly behaved grandchildren , age 3 1/2 and 5 1/2. It was not very pleasant. They shrieked, spilled, spat, hit, threw objects, disobeyed, sat at the dinner table loudly proclaiming "I hate all that stuff"; and after opening their Christmas gifts stated boldly, "Is that all there is?"

I am embarrassed to claim them as my grandchildren. My daughter is a high school teacher with a Master's Degree. Her husband is a Lutheran minister with a Master's in Theology. They have bought into the modern childrearing methods of negotiation, cajoling, being "best friends" with the kids, and worst of all, never saying "NO!".

I'd love to email the above article to my daughter, but she would probably never speak to me again.

[Holly_P]

Birthday Dec. 27th. I Get to vote for GWB come November assuming that by then I am not a patient in an asylum for the insane. My state has strict election laws about that.

Thank you for your kind words. Holly

P.S. I live in Illinois and my state does not have the same strict standards about letting dead people vote.

[netmilsmom]

I have had to give my children one spanking each in their lives. Now when I threaten to spank, they know what it is.
More than spanking, removal from the situation is most important. In otherwords, "If you can't behave like a human, you will not be with the humans." Even my three year old has had the "Go to your room" treatment. When she will not move, I remove her and hold the door closed while she bellows. It takes consistency more than anything else and children must know what a spank is to be able to hold it above them.

Please send the article to your daughter, do it for her children. They deserve a parent willing to put in an effort.

[netmilsmom]

LOL!

Well just remember (I worked for a Psych), you get free cookies on the Psych ward.

[annyokie]

Yes, mama was mortified, but we laughed a bit since my boys have run up and grabbed women after church (whom they assumed were me) and then when they realized their mistake were dissolved into tears.


Little bit was quite cute and told me, "Good-bye, nice lady!")when I left.

[MizzouTigerRepublican]

Speaking of dead people voting. In Missouri it is a common place in STL for that kind of stuff to go on.

[annyokie]

Oh, funny story here: When I was finishing my BA, I was about 5 months gone with my last and I came downstairs to find my floppy disc (final project) covered with refrigerator magnets and my six year old looking proud. I started shreiking "Go to your room RIGHT NOW for your own safety!"

Fortunately, no harm was done to anyone or thing.

[Gabz]

"Elaborate systems that give kids multiple chances, prolonged discussions about the 'feelings' behind bad behavior, negotiations about consequences and so on are often ineffective."

There are NO multiple chances, discussions (of the type referenced here) or negotiations in this house.

Does my 5 year old act up at times and throw a tantrum? of course, she's 5 - but she is also old enough to understand there are consequences to her behavior.

[diamond6]

ping

[Spruce]

I always have a lot of laughs with my kids but they've always known when I am disappointed with them and who is in charge. They also know when I am proud or happy with them.
I can remember vividly every time I've spanked each of my kids, and why. I'm sure they do as well.

p.s. You are a posting machine Miss Holly_P.

[Gabz]

Back when I was in school, if a kid acted out like this, they were the ones hauled out of class

My 5 year old IS in public school and that is exactly what happens when they act like this - I know because it happened to my daughter one day.

I also purposely chose this school district when we decided to move.

[Gabz]

What was a 2 year old doing running loose in a store to begin with??????