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Shells found in cannons aboard USS Cairo exhibit (anti-gun hysteria alert)
Vicksburg Post ^ | 11/20/03 | Knowlton

Posted on 11/20/2003 9:53:53 AM PST by pabianice

[11/19/03]Cannons in the USS Cairo exhibit were X-rayed Tuesday by a U.S. Army explosives team, but no conclusions were reached on whether they remain dangerous after more than a century on the river bottom and decades on display.

Curator Elizabeth Joyner said she was checking records on the recovery of the Union ironclad when she realized some of the weapons might still be loaded.

Explosive ordnance disposal technicians Sgts. Linda Wooten and Anthony Verbeck brought a portable X-ray machine from Camp Shelby, an Army base near Hattiesburg, to check for hazards in the four cannons that Joyner determined had not been unloaded.

“I couldn’t get through to see it good,” Wooten said of the barrels that are believed to still contain projectiles. The metal is inches thick, and the machine was underpowered for the task.

The Cairo was in a fleet of Union boats sent both up and down the Mississippi River during the Civil War as part of naval efforts to capture Vicksburg, a stronghold of the Confederacy.

It was sunk by a mine during an expedition up the Yazoo on Dec. 12, 1862, and remained there until recovered in 1964. After years of wrangling, funding was obtained to make the historic craft’s remnants part of a museum display in the Vicksburg National Military Park where about 900,000 people tour every year.

Joyner said she was reviewing records of the cannons’ retrieval that showed some were unloaded after they were raised, but one barrel was damaged in the process.

“The people working on the raising asked the Navy demolition team to stop what they were doing because they were afraid the cannons would be damaged,” she said. “Safety is a big concern, but you have to balance that out with protection of the resource.”

Joyner said park staff followed up by shining flashlights down the barrels of the four guns that records showed remained loaded. After seeing what they thought were shells, they reported their findings to park management. If explosives or propellants remain behind those shells, they could still be active, even after 141 years.

“We did some preliminary research yesterday when they called us at the unit,” said Wooten, who referred to books containing pictures of Civil War-era shells. She and Verbeck used measurements and comparisons with similar unloaded guns to determine where in the barrels the projectiles were and what space might be behind them.

She said she had never been called to handle any similar material. “I would think very few people have,” she said.

At least three of the four cannon barrels she and Verbeck examined contained projectiles, and at least one of those was broken inside the barrel, she said.

Three of the cannons were 42-pound guns with rifled barrels. The other was a 32-pound, smoothbore cannon. Both could deliver explosive shells, examples of which are on display inside the Cairo museum.

All four guns are in the display. Two are on opposite sides of the ironclad and two point straight ahead. The guns were stored in Vicksburg while the remains of the boat were stored at Pascagoula’s Ingalls Shipyard from its retrieval until 1977, when it was returned to Vicksburg and its restoration was begun. The Cairo museum was completed in 1980.

Joyner, a 21-year-park employee, said some gunpowder was found dry inside the boat and its weapons, even after more than 100 years underwater.

“The fuse hole in the back was blocked up by corrosion or whatever, and it was dry,” Wooten said of a cannon that was found with dry powder.

Wooten also said corrosion might have fused projectiles to the inside surface of barrels, lessening the danger, but making removal difficult if not impossible.

Wooten suggested to park officials that they ask for help from teams with more-powerful X-ray equipment.

The exhibit was closed to visitors briefly during the technicians’ work but was reopened after their departure.

The Cairo was one of seven gunboats in its class. In addition to 13 guns on board, there was a crew of 159. In the Cairo’s case, ages ranged from 14 to 64. After it struck the mine, the boat sank in about 12 minutes. After attempting to run the ship aground, Capt. Thomas Selfridge ordered his crew to abandon. No lives were lost.

“We’re always conducting research; that’s part of our job,” Joyner said. “I just thought I would check it out, because it raised some concerns.”

© 2003 The Vicksburg Post All Rights Reserved.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
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Ban all black power cannons submerged for over 100 years! This menace must be ended!


1 posted on 11/20/2003 9:53:54 AM PST by pabianice
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To: pabianice
Note to self.... when on sinking battle ship; make sure you unload the cannons before seeking the life boats.
2 posted on 11/20/2003 9:58:46 AM PST by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: pabianice
I just can't get used to Black Barets on everyone.
3 posted on 11/20/2003 9:58:59 AM PST by BBell
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To: pabianice
It was sunk by a mine during an expedition up the Yazoo...

I always wondered where that expression came from.

4 posted on 11/20/2003 10:01:39 AM PST by FreePaul
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To: pabianice
I know of a man in the Corps of Engineers who foolishly used a burner to burn moss off of a solid shot from the C.S.S. Georgia wreck. The "shot" turned out to be a shell (whoops!) and he blew up his storage shed in his backyard, when it detonated. Luckily for him, he had gone inside for a beer, when it blew. Nobody got hurt, but he sure would have been a Darwin Award nominee, if he had been killed. He had to "explain" why he swiped an historical artifact, however.
5 posted on 11/20/2003 10:07:14 AM PST by You Gotta Be Kidding Me
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To: pabianice
When I was in college (years and years ago in that far-off era known today as the hedonistic '70s), a handyman in Kinston, NC blew himself up with a Civil War shell. Apparently he assumed it was a solid shot cannonball and began drilling a hole in it to make a lamp out of it.

Oops. Bad move, Otis.

It was an explosive shell. The resultant heat and sparks ignited the dried and unstable powder, blew the back wall off the shop, and killed him dead.

6 posted on 11/20/2003 10:07:32 AM PST by Jonah Hex (If it wasn't for door-to-door salesmen, my dog would never get any exercise.)
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To: pabianice
Geez--why not run a fiber optic image probe down the bore?? Who needs X-rays??
7 posted on 11/20/2003 10:08:33 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: pabianice
Black powder, even once wet, will ignite if now dry and sparked. 140 years doesn't really make a difference unless their has been some kind of degeneration of the composition. I've been shooting like crazy for 30 years, been reloading cartridges most of that time, and have never heard of black powder going "dead". I don't suggest over reaction, but it might be smart to figure out how to safely "unload" those guns before some "Bart Simpson" type idiot kid throws a lit M-80 down one of those cannon barrels.
8 posted on 11/20/2003 10:16:05 AM PST by Lockbar
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To: pabianice
Yankee cannons...let the yanks unload em....I'll stand over here.
9 posted on 11/20/2003 10:16:20 AM PST by Lee Heggy (When marriage is outlawed only outlaws will have inlaws)
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To: pabianice
Our high school ROTC arranged a visit from a US Navy EOD Charleston SC unit. One of the EOD men told us that they used to drill out old canonballs and remove the powder. This made them inert so the finder could safely keep the cannonball. They said that some EOD people were killed doing that so they stopped. He said that now ( this was back in the 1970's ) they just destroy them like any other explosive. I don't think policy this had changed since then so it looks like they may end up blowing these up.

10 posted on 11/20/2003 10:20:33 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (Proud member of the right-wing extremist neanderthals.)
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To: pabianice
where is the anti gun hysteria in this article? This is a safety issue here. Black powder can remain active as long as its dry for a very long time as illustrated in some other posts above me.
11 posted on 11/20/2003 10:22:23 AM PST by holdmuhbeer
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To: pabianice
Why is a women (who is supposed to be relegated by law to a non-combat role) trained to handle unexploded ordinance?
12 posted on 11/20/2003 10:36:21 AM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: pabianice
You sank my battleship!
13 posted on 11/20/2003 10:44:33 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: pabianice
About 11 years back a fellow with a backhoe was excavating a foundation for a new fellowship hall at a near by church. He came across what he thought was some old sewer
lines. He thought there was something strange about ‘em and called the cops.
The cops determined that they were civil war cannon and called the EOD team at Ft.Jackson, fortunately a police Lt. who was a reenactor called a local historian. He
contacted the State museum in Columbia and got a hands off order.
The museum didn’t have the funds to do anything about the guns and when we convinced the curator we were competent he allow us to take possession.
To make a long story short, all four guns had been booby trapped via multiple shells (they were 3’ confederate rifles) placed nose to nose in the tubes, it took ten years, countless hours of volunteer labor and donations to finally to ‘em where they belong.
Two were placed on steel carriages obtained from the Parks Service(Fredricksburg) by the good graces of Strum Thurman.
They are currently on public display in the town square in Chester SC, at the Chester County courthouse, one at the State museum in Columbia and the last was sleeved,placed on a period wooden carriage, and is the only original 3” Confederate Parrot gun inthe reenactment community.
And..... I was honored with being on the cannon crew when she was fired for the first time in 137 years... an’ that baby still has quite a bark!!!!
BTW....And YES.. the powder in the interior shells was as good as the day it came from the powder factory!!!
14 posted on 11/20/2003 10:52:18 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire with meetings, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: pabianice
She said she had never been called to handle any similar material. “I would think very few people have,” she said.

My dad would be one of those people. He led a clean-up project in an East Coast city Army arsenal some time ago. He kept one Civil War cannonball as a souvenier. I've always been very careful in handling it, though.

15 posted on 11/20/2003 11:05:25 AM PST by Fudd
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To: holdmuhbeer
You're 100% correct.
16 posted on 11/20/2003 11:09:48 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: Last Dakotan
Why is a women (who is supposed to be relegated by law to a non-combat role) trained to handle unexploded ordinance?

Handling unexploded ordinance, while dangerous, isn't combat. That's why.

Besides which, "non-combat" isn't the law, only certain specialties, basically those involved in close combat. We have female A-10 pilots. Ask the Saddamites how combat capable they are. (F-16,F-15, B-52, F-14, F/A-18, etc, etc as well of course, but the A-10s get down and dirty, and often come back full of holes, but still flying) We have females crewing Patriot batteries, and flying helicopters. My favorite story concerns a female Air Force type on an AC-130, or maybe it was on an AWACS that was "working" AC-130s, I'm having a senior moment I guess, who would get on the radio and taunt the AlQaida and Talibunnies in Afghanistan. She'd tell them what we were going to do to them, and afterwards asked them how they liked it, assuming there was anyone left with a working radio to hear her. The Northern Alliance guys would get on the same freq and translate. :)

17 posted on 11/20/2003 11:43:07 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Robe
Yep, ya gotta watch that stuff.

A friend of mine growing up lived in a house that was around when the Battle of Atlanta was fought (more accurately, it was in the middle of the advance from Kennesaw Mt. and Marietta to Atlanta - just south of the major river crossing - and somebody used it for a headquarters.) The yard was FULL of artifacts, including a lot of unexploded ordnance.

When we played in her yard, we had a standing "Eddie Eagle" type order if we found anything that looked "old" - stop, go inside and get one of the grownups. Her parents had a couple of big books with pictures and sketches to aid in identification of shells, and they were on a first name basis with the EOD types at Fort McPherson and the Atlanta Historical Society.

Nothing ever went "boom", though. :-)

18 posted on 11/20/2003 11:51:58 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: El Gato
I heard of one on an AC-130, who would yell, "You just got killed by a GIRL!" at the talibunnies :)
19 posted on 11/20/2003 11:53:12 AM PST by Britton J Wingfield (TANSTAAFL)
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To: El Gato
I'm thrilled that she had such a positive and cheerful experience, and came back with cute story to tell.

I have to suppose, given recent experience, that had her aircraft been downed and she had been captured her experience would have been a little less "cute".

20 posted on 11/20/2003 3:44:43 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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