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To: betty boop
Thank you so very much for pinging me to this most excellent discussion concerning moral values and knowing who (what) is Good!

Having just recently read Lance Morrow's Evil: An Investigation, I do have one point to add to the mix...

There is a well-documented historical tendency among groups of people whether by tribe, race, nationality, ideology, religion, etc. - to consider "outsiders" as sub-human. Thus, the murder, rape or subjugation of such outsiders is considered "good" to them. In their worldview, it would be “evil” not to murder, rape or subjugate the outsiders.

IMHO, the Westernized civilizations of this day and age - which was built upon Judeo/Christian values - takes the broad view that all human life is equally precious. This is not a new doctrine; the Great Commandment has always been to love God absolutely and our neighbor unconditionally (paraphrased) – but until very recent times, the “tribal” instinct was so great that even Christians wanted to pick and choose who would be their “neighbor” (to be loved) and who would be sub-human (to be destroyed).

Thankfully, the telecommunications age has made the world quite small and it is very easy to identify the groups who still hold that ancient “tribal” worldview, e.g. Islamic fundamentalists. I suspect that mankind – left to its own wisdom, without the light of Christ’s teachings – would still be dominated by such “tribal” instincts.

788 posted on 11/30/2003 9:42:20 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
PMFJI, but you made a couple interesting observations:
IMHO, the Westernized civilizations of this day and age - which was built upon Judeo/Christian values - takes the broad view that all human life is equally precious. This is not a new doctrine; the Great Commandment has always been to love God absolutely and our neighbor unconditionally (paraphrased) – but until very recent times, the “tribal” instinct was so great that even Christians wanted to pick and choose who would be their “neighbor” (to be loved) and who would be sub-human (to be destroyed).

When I think of "recent times", I think of the '90s concept of total cultural diversity as a fundamental value. Where does that come from? I thought that was a combination of a last-gasp tactic by the postmodern Left to save collectivism by making moral judgement itself seem evil, and a generational reaction to the Jim Crow era by idealistic baby boomers carrying around their ideological hammer so treasured from their youth & looking for more nails.

Thankfully, the telecommunications age has made the world quite small and it is very easy to identify the groups who still hold that ancient “tribal” worldview, e.g. Islamic fundamentalists. I suspect that mankind – left to its own wisdom, without the light of Christ’s teachings – would still be dominated by such “tribal” instincts.

Of course, one could make the argument that with a global marketplace & free trade, it becomes that much more expensive to declare someone "the other". I wonder if that has something to do with it, too? That could explain the rash of pretentious commercials for global corporations back in the late '90s, where some native tribesman intones some profoundly mystical-sounding platitude to the camera & we're supposed to be moved.

Boy, that was sooo September 10th! And yet in the long run I'm still an optimist, because Western-style civilization is, objectively speaking, so much better than the alternatives that are yet standing out there. It's just a question of how long a run one has too look to... :-)

790 posted on 11/30/2003 11:11:48 PM PST by jennyp (http://objectivism.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
If you see a rabid dog, snarling and snapping with blood in its eyes, coming down the street at you, you don't set up an inquiry board to look into the factual circumstances of the case. You just shoot it.
785 betty boop




There is a well-documented historical tendency among groups of people whether by tribe, race, nationality, ideology, religion, etc. - to consider "outsiders" as sub-human. Thus, the murder, rape or subjugation of such outsiders is considered "good" to them. In their worldview, it would be "evil" not to murder, rape or subjugate the outsiders.

IMHO, the Westernized civilizations of this day and age - which was built upon Judeo/Christian values - takes the broad view that all human life is equally precious.
788 -AG-




The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation. We are thus driven to the unfashionable conclusion that the trouble with our species is not an excess of aggression, but an excess capacity for fanatical devotion.
-Arthur Koestler-
794 posted on 12/01/2003 1:22:26 AM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but FRs flying monkey squad brings out the Rickenbacker in me.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
I suspect that mankind – left to its own wisdom, without the light of Christ’s teachings – would still be dominated by such “tribal” instincts.

I suspect the same, Alamo-Girl. The evolution of human consciousness began radically to change with the Incarnation, as Christ's message of love and hope was spread throughout the world. Or so it seems to me.

802 posted on 12/01/2003 6:36:24 AM PST by betty boop (God used beautiful mathematics in creating the world. -- Paul Dirac)
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