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To: churchillbuff
I disklike Sen Boxer more than most. But I believe trying to "score points" in a political campaign by using the imagery of the fires is the wrong thing to do.

IMHO, the CAUSE of these fires isn't one policy or another. The CAUSE of these fires is the incredibly dry conditions, hot desert winds, and ARSONISTS.

I'm sure it can be argued that some environmental policies created conditions that allowed the fires to be "worse." And I'm sure the enviros could also argue that no one would have been hurt, nor any property destroyed, if we hadn't allowed the development in the first place. It will cut both ways...

Next time some developer wants to build a tract on the edge of the Chino Hills, or in the Brea area OC/LA divide, watch anti-growth politicians say "Noooo!, building there will mean houses are destroyed in the inevitable fire, just like in FIRESTORM 2003"
4 posted on 10/28/2003 5:32:27 PM PST by ER_in_OC,CA
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
IMHO, the CAUSE of these fires isn't one policy or another. The CAUSE of these fires is the incredibly dry conditions, hot desert winds, and ARSONISTS.

ALSO, A LOAD OF KINDLING - BRUSH, DEAD TREES - THAT HAS BEEN SPECIFICALLY WARNED ABOUT BY PROPONENTS OF CLEARANCE, AND PROPONENTS OF BUSH'S HEALTHY FORESTS. There was even a congressional committee conference held earlier this year at Arrowhead - which is burning now -- warning that if clearance isn't allowed, fire would be intense. Boxer has been blocking sensible forest management policies, going with the (literally ) stupid greens instead. POINTING THAT OUT ISN'T "SCORING CHEAP POLITICAL POINTS" IT'S TELLING THE TRUTH -- - AND IT'S TRUTH VOTERS NEED TO HEAR.

6 posted on 10/28/2003 5:36:10 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1010048/posts

BACKGROUND: The Clinton Administration's compliance with environmentalist diktats on forest management has been a major contributor to the monster wildfires roaring across the U.S. Despite this, Carl Pope, executive director of the Sierra Club, issued a denial of responsibility for the fires on June 25, 2002, as have other environmentalists.

The Department of Agriculture will be investigating instances in which environmental groups prevented forest thinning but whatever they find, it will be only the tip of the iceberg. Environmental extremists worked diligently behind the scenes during the Clinton-Gore years to virtually end essential logging on federal land and get 58,500,000 acres made off limits to roads and, therefore, all kinds of human activity -- including fire fighting.

TEN SECOND RESPONSE: Environmentalists know they played a major role in halting essential harvesting and road building that would have prevented the current disaster in America's forests.

THIRTY SECOND RESPONSE: The Sierra Club and its allies played key roles in the Clinton-Gore years in ending essential logging and road building and maintenance in our nation's forests. Pope, in his denial of responsibility, called for prescribed burns to reduce fuel in forests, yet he and others were part of the Heritage Forests Campaign which lobbied for and got over 58 million acres declared off limits to roads. Fire trucks are necessary for safe prescribed burns, as fire trucks can't fly.

DISCUSSION: Dr. Tom Bonnicksen of Texas A&M University, professor of forestry and author of "America's Ancient Forests: From the Ice Age to the Age of Discovery," points out that prescribed burns are impossible in many areas because of the drastically overfueled condition of our forests. As one of the nation's leading forestry experts, he claims logging is essential to maintaining the health of today's forests.
7 posted on 10/28/2003 5:36:12 PM PST by Samurai_Jack (Pacifism by its nature invites escalating acts of war on anyone who practices it.)
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
I'm sure it can be argued that some environmental policies created conditions that allowed the fires to be "worse."

Damn straight. It HAS been so argued, for months and years - - - California conditions, with dead trees and brush, have created a tinderbox and THE WARNINGS HAVE BEEN MADE. Boxer listens to the greens, instead.

10 posted on 10/28/2003 5:37:42 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
I'm sure it can be argued that some environmental policies created conditions that allowed the fires to be "worse."

Yeah, but worse means more people dying and more homes destroyed. It is absolutely the arsonists fault. But we have fires every year, so this isn't exactly rocket science or hindsight. A known problem exists and nothing is ever done about it. The GOP is constantly villianized for their common-sense forstry as a bunch of anti-environmentalists.

20 posted on 10/28/2003 6:24:02 PM PST by Always Right
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
I am a logical common sense person. I read what you post and it couldn't be much further off the truth ER.

First, a lot of this "IS" the leftist environmentalists and the controlling Democrat machine here in CA that are at fault for the extent of this damage.

We have beetles that have killed trees left standing in the forest that have taken off like they were gas.

Bush did want common sense clearing of old and damaged growth. Also wanted to have new things planted where needed.

I think it is a legitimate issue in elections for the next ten years and that to try and play nice now will bite us in the ass.

Boxer is prime to be plucked if you get a decent non-McClintock candidate in there.
The legislature of the CA State also needs to be shook up and I have the feeling Arnold will use the press and come to the people to let them know the circus the Democrats had going here.

Boxer, the Democrats in the Legislature and lesser Democrats are all obstructionists and anti-business idiots who need to be given the boot by people.

What you suggest just barely falls shy of a cooperative cover-up to basically help Democrats maintain power by not raising valid powerful issues that would cripple them.

This goes beyond politics as well. This is a right thing to do when you point out who has been involved in preventing proper forrest maintenance.

If you had a car and Democrats said never add air, new brakes, oil and for heaven sake, never clean the windows...you'd be in an accident and seek blood!
This is not so different and the Democrats have been that negligent here with the influence and power given to them by voters. Voters have a right to know and become angry.

I just don't share that view of yours and think your view would be the Democrat's dream move from conservatives.
33 posted on 10/28/2003 10:44:09 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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