10/18/03 -- Jeb's Emails to FR poster, summer, today, re: Terri. (And, a Message to Michael Shiavo)

Sorry. I will challenge anyone who misrepresents standard medical ethics or knowledge.

That's the nature of posting on these forums. If you're not willing to debate, don't cry when you're challenged.

321 posted on 10/19/2003 4:48:54 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah

While "Guardianship" may not be in conflict with adultery, "marriage" certainly is, and with Michael Schiavo openly calling his new common-law wife a fiancee, he is blatantly declaring the dissolution of his union with Terri both in word and deed. He is estranged from Terri, and has started a new family. He should be charged with bigamy, or compelled to a divorce.

This should have happened 10 years ago. He has been living with Jodi Centzone since at least 1994. It is an outrage how he was able to remain Terri's guardian all these years. Why has no one arrested him for bigamy or adultery.

322 posted on 10/19/2003 4:49:24 PM PDT by blueriver

To: Goldwater Girl

I don't read the law to say what I want it to say- but just what it says

I like this part of the law

765.105 Review of surrogate or proxy's decision.--The patient's family, the health care facility, or the attending physician, or any other interested person who may reasonably be expected to be directly affected by the surrogate or proxy's decision concerning any health care decision may seek expedited judicial intervention pursuant to rule 5.900 of the Florida Probate Rules, if that person believes:
(1)  The surrogate or proxy's decision is not in accord with the patient's known desires or the provisions of this chapter;
(2)  The advance directive is ambiguous, or the patient has changed his or her mind after execution of the advance directive;
(3)  The surrogate or proxy was improperly designated or appointed, or the designation of the surrogate is no longer effective or has been revoked;
(4)  The surrogate or proxy has failed to discharge duties, or incapacity or illness renders the surrogate or proxy incapable of discharging duties;
(5)  The surrogate or proxy has abused powers;[snip]

323 posted on 10/19/2003 4:49:27 PM PDT by syriacus (Judge Greer---YOU should have looked into Terri's eyes and asked her if she wanted life.)

They probably would not have moved her to the courthouse, but many judges have visited patients in their nursing homes. As to why- because he chose not to.
Does the ongoing debate about President Bush's judicial appointments being held up because their conservative views are "outside the mainstream" have additional meaning now? Judge Greer is mainstream. I don't want him ruling whether I live or die. Do you?

324 posted on 10/19/2003 4:49:41 PM PDT by Goldwater Girl

To: Canticle_of_Deborah

RE your post #321 - I realize two professionals in the same field can have different opinions. But to allege the other person is impersonating a nurse when that is not the case is simply wrong. Thanks for your post.

325 posted on 10/19/2003 4:50:52 PM PDT by summer

Yes- that's the part of the law that gives the parents standing in the court to challenge the decisions. Unfortunately, perhaps through incompetant counsel, they did not prevail.

326 posted on 10/19/2003 4:53:09 PM PDT by Goldwater Girl

To: summer; Canticle_of_Deborah

Excuse me summer -- but it wasn't CofD who initially charged someone was jumping to conclusions.

327 posted on 10/19/2003 5:01:08 PM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla (You can't see where we're going when you don't look where we've been.)

To: Goldwater Girl

He denied her parent's visitation because he said publishing the videos (which were obtained secretly in violation of Greer's order) were degrading to Terri and an invasion of her privacy.

Why do you mention the videos?
The videos have nothing to do with what you said, or I said.

My response was to your asking why her parents haven't prevailed in "all those years." You were not asking about recent events. Are you telling me her parents were making videos years ago?

Here is what you asked at post 299,

You Wrote:
If she was denied therapy for all those years- why did the parents not prevail?

I included your question at the beginning of my post, but you seem to have skipped over it in your eagerness to mention the videos.

328 posted on 10/19/2003 5:09:53 PM PDT by syriacus (Judge Greer---YOU should have looked into Terri's eyes and asked her if she wanted life.)

I may have missed this and forgive me if so, but why didn't this get taken all the way up to the still-somewhat-conservative USSC? Thanks.

329 posted on 10/19/2003 5:14:53 PM PDT by PeyersPatches

Isn't there ONE conservative judge in the State of Florida that they can get this in front of? Also, how about the angle of bigotry/conflict of interest/common law marriage and children by another woman. I honestly do not believe that something couldn't be done - this case is just rift with holes. Sorry for all the angles on the questions!

330 posted on 10/19/2003 5:19:16 PM PDT by PeyersPatches

"Why has no one arrested him for bigamy or adultery." More to the legal points, why has judge Greer continued to protect the guardian he appointed when clear evidence proves the guardian has been defrauding his ward and abusing her via neglect of her therapy and thus her recovery? Additionally, why does the governor not suspend the suspect rulings of the malfeasant judge who has failed to exercise HIS state guardianship responsibilty to hold Michael Schaivo to the minimum standards of guardianship and allowed the Terri's guardian to abuse and deraud her?

People don't want to believe that Jeb Bush is culpable in this horror, but he certainly IS. He filed an amicus breif in Lazzara's court that stated the grounds upon which he may intervene to suspend the execution of Greer's ruling to kill Terri, but now will not act upon his own filing!

331 posted on 10/19/2003 5:22:25 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)

To: PeyersPatches

The timeline in the case of Terri Schiavo, who had her feeding tube removed Wednesday after a six-year legal battle between her husband and parents.

- Feb. 25, 1990: Terri Schiavo collapses in her home. Doctors believe a potassium imbalance caused her heart to stop, temporarily cutting off oxygen to her brain.

- Nov. 1992: Terri's husband, Michael, wins malpractice suit that accused doctors of misdiagnosing his wife; jury awards more than more than $700,000 for her care, Michael receives an additional $300,000.

- Feb. 14, 1993: Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have a falling out with Michael over the malpractice suit money and Terri's care.

- July 29, 1993: Bob and Mary Schindler file petition to have Michael Schiavo removed as Terri's guardian. The case is later dismissed.

- May 1998: Michael Schiavo files petition to remove Terri's feeding tube.

- Feb. 11, 2000: Circuit Judge George W. Greer rules feeding tube can be removed.

- Jan. 24, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's decision.

- March 29, 2001: Greer rules feeding tube to be removed April 20.

- April 18, 2001: Florida Supreme Court refuses to intervene in the case.

- April 20, 2001: U.S. District Judge Richard Lazzara grants the Schindlers a stay until April 23 to exhaust appeals.

- April 23, 2001: U.S. Supreme Court refuses to intervene.

- April 24, 2001: Feeding tube is removed from Terri Schiavo.

- April 26, 2001: Circuit Judge Frank Quesada orders doctors to reinsert Terri's feeding tube; the Schindlers pursue lawsuit against Michael Schiavo, accusing him of committing perjury by saying his wife did not want to be kept on life support.

- April 30, 2001: Lawyers for Michael Schiavo file emergency motion with appellate court asking it to order removal of Terri's feeding tube.

- July 11, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal sends case back to Judge Greer.

- July 18, 2001: Schindlers ask Greer to let their doctors evaluate Terri before making a final decision on removing the feeding tube.

- Aug. 10, 2001: Greer denies the Schindlers' evaluation request, as well as their request to remove Michael Schiavo as guardian.

- Sept. 26, 2001: Schindlers' attorneys argue before 2nd District Court of Appeal, citing testimony from seven doctors who say Terri can recover with the right treatment.

- Oct. 3, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal delays removal of feeding tube indefinitely.

- Oct. 17, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal rules that five doctors can examine Terri to determine whether she has any hope of recovery. Two doctors are picked by the Schindlers, two are picked by Michael Schiavo and one is picked by the court.

- Feb. 13, 2002: Mediation attempts fail; Michael Schiavo again seeks to be allowed to remove Terri's feeding tube.

- Oct. 12, 2002: Weeklong hearing begins in the case. Three doctors, including the one appointed by the court, testify that Terri is in a persistent, vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The two doctors selected by the Schindlers say she can recover.

- Nov. 12, 2002: The Schindlers' attorney says medical records suggest Terri's condition may have been brought on by physical abuse, and asks for more time to get more evidence.

- Nov. 22, 2002: Judge Greer rules that there is no evidence that Terri has any hope of recovery and orders feeding tube to be removed Jan. 3, 2003.

- Dec. 13, 2002: Judge Greer stays order to remove feeding tube on Jan. 3 until the 2nd District Court of Appeal reviews the case.

-April 4, 2003: Schindlers' attorneys ask Second District Court of Appeal panel to "err on the side of life" and overturn Greer's ruling.

-June 6, 2003: 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's ruling.

-July 15, 2003: The 2nd District Court of Appeal refuses to rehear the case.

-Aug. 22, 2003: The Florida Supreme Court declines to hear case.

-Sept. 2, 2003: Schindlers take case to federal court seeking judicial intervention.

-Sept. 17, 2003: Judge Greer sets Oct. 15 date for removal of tube.

-Oct. 3, 2003: Attorney General Charlie Crist says he won't get involved in case.

-Oct. 7, 2003: Gov. Jeb Bush files a federal court brief urging Terri Schiavo be kept alive.

-Oct. 10, 2003: U.S. District Judge Lazzara rules he does not have jurisdiction to intervene in case.

-Oct. 13, 2003: Protesters and Schindler family begin 24-hour vigil at Pinellas Park hospice where Terri Schiavo lives.

-Oct. 14, 2003: 2nd District Court of Appeal again refuses to block tube removal; Schindler attorneys declare legal options exhausted.

-Oct. 15, 2003: Doctors remove feeding tube; Bush pledges to search for possible legal options to resume feedings.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031015/APN/310150918

332 posted on 10/19/2003 5:23:35 PM PDT by EllaMinnow (Life is too important to be taken seriously.)

Thank you.

Where is this guy and can they get this case back in front of him?: Circuit Judge Frank Quesada

333 posted on 10/19/2003 5:26:37 PM PDT by PeyersPatches

-Oct. 15, 2003: Doctors remove feeding tube; Bush pledges to search for possible legal options to resume feedings. I wonder if the feckless governor even read his own amicus brief?

334 posted on 10/19/2003 5:26:50 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)

To: Goldwater Girl

Does the ongoing debate about President Bush's judicial appointments being held up because their conservative views are "outside the mainstream" have additional meaning now? Judge Greer is mainstream. I don't want him ruling whether I live or die. Do you?

Oh yes the debate for conservative appointments DOES have meaning in light of this....and before this. The conservative Republicans( and yes, I am FROM CALIFORNIA, nuf said!).....need to take action the same as the forceful Demos.Do what Clinton did,APPOINT during recess, off hours, what ever it takes. WORKING nicely with the demos isn't going to work.!!

335 posted on 10/19/2003 5:34:27 PM PDT by pollywog

To: RedBloodedAmerican

So, does that mean I am inn your will? ;o)

Yep. You and the cat will have plenty of catnip to last for the rest of your life.

336 posted on 10/19/2003 5:44:18 PM PDT by CheneyChick (Let the Hauskleaning Begin)

Catnip? Great. I'll sell it to my libertarian friends and they can smoke it.

337 posted on 10/19/2003 5:45:34 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican

To: Goldwater Girl

Unfortunately, perhaps through incompetant [sic] counsel, they did not prevail.

The Schindlers were unfortunate.

They believed in playing by the rules, but Michael's lawyer was George ("I-can-make-planes-fall-from-the-sky") Felos , who is capable of lying.

It's hard for honest people like the Schindlers to win in the short run, but I'm sure the truth will eventually come out.

It usually does.

I hope the Schindlers live to see the evil exposed.

338 posted on 10/19/2003 5:57:03 PM PDT by syriacus (Judge Greer---YOU should have looked into Terri's eyes and asked her if she wanted life.)

To: PeyersPatches

Isn't there ONE conservative judge in the State of Florida that they can get this in front of?

I wish someone like >>>>>Sanders Sauls<<<<< was the judge handling this.

When his former nanny was ill, he went to the hospital to spoon-feed her three times a day.

He is out of favor with the other Florida judges. I think that is a good sign.

339 posted on 10/19/2003 6:01:52 PM PDT by syriacus (Judge Greer---YOU should have looked into Terri's eyes and asked her if she wanted life.)

Schiavo didn't hire Felos until 1997.

340 posted on 10/19/2003 6:05:04 PM PDT by EllaMinnow (Life is too important to be taken seriously.)

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