10/18/03 -- Jeb's Emails to FR poster, summer, today, re: Terri. (And, a Message to Michael Shiavo)

10/18/03 | summer's emails with Gov Bush

[summer]

Note to FR: I am posting here an email conversation I had today with Gov Bush about Terri, and yes, he knows I am posting it here on FR.

In my reply #1, located below this post of Gov Bush’s email, I have posted a message from me to Terri’s husband. And, no, I did not discuss with anyone my idea here to write to Terri’s husband. No one suggested it to me. Nor did I discuss it with anyone at all.

In my next reply, reply #2 below, I hope to post a message to my friends here on FR. And, while I would like to respond to each reply that may be posted on this thread, I can not. Due to a pressing personal matter, I will not be able to respond tonight.

However, my thoughts and prayers and hopes remain with each person involved in this matter.

God bless.

summer

-------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: [summer]
To: Jeb Bush
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: …question for you…

Gov Bush,

Thank you, and I have no doubt you would move Heaven and Earth for her if you could.

Sincerely, [summer]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:42 PM
Subject: …question for you…

I cannot offer much hope. I am sickened by this situtation and pray for her family. We have looked at every angle, every legal possibility and will continue to do so. It is clear that we need to make living wills the norm for families in our state. Too few people use them.

Jeb

-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:38 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: Re: …question for you…

Thank you for your response, Gov Bush. Before I post this, can you provide any measure of hope for a legal way to preserve this woman's life? To think that all her parents want to do is care for her and not see her starve to death, is, I think, not asking for a lot in this world. My own parents would feel the same way about me, I am sure[…]

[summer]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:07 PM
Subject: …question for you…

this was tried in the courts I believe and was rejected.

jeb

-----Original Message-----

From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:03 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: …question for you…

Is there a way you can utilize Family Law as it pertains to abandonment of a spouse -- on the grounds of lack of sexual contact -- so that the path can be cleared for him to be legally removed by the state or her family as a husband?

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeb Bush
Sent: Oct 18, 2003 1:47 PM
To: [summer]
Subject: …question for you…

Unfortunately, I cannot issue an executive order when there is a court order upheld at every level in the judiciary. Mr. Shiavo is the legal guardian and I can't override that fact. I wish I could but I have no legal authority to do so.

Jeb

-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 11:02 AM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: …question for you…

Can you use your authority to issue an Executive Order, to place her in a different hospice that has no connection to her husband, as a temporary stop measure to [get] this woman back on feeding -- so that you have the time necessary to review whatever other options may exist for you? This current situation with her removed from the tubes will result in an irrevocable situation.

[Avoiding_Sulla]

I couldn't agree with you more. I am in fact terrified of the powers our current judiciary wields.

I think it's just as wrong to rant at Jeb for failing to defy this order as it is to rant at Jeb for not marching down to the nearest abortion clinic and stopping every abortion he sees. If someone feels that strongly about it, they should be willing to do it themselves, rather than demanding that Bush break the law and face prison time -for-them.

Then why isn't he asking people to show their anguish instead of you doing it? This is not near the devisiveness of the abortion issue. If anything it's a rallying point.

THIS is a legitimate complaint.

We all talk of the power of the bully-pulpit, but when the one who ostensibly represents our side occupies that pulpit, then the leader's apologists seem to forget all about the promises to USE IT. Why? Answer that!

How, in heavens name, are we not right to hold Jeb accountable for NOT FOMENTING the justifiable -- under the Nuremborg principle --protests?

[Qwinn]

Only two things I have to disagree with your post on.

One, I am not dispassionate about this at all. I care about Terri, and the future ramifications of this ghastly case, a great deal. My arguments have been aimed not at marginalizing the importance of the situation, but at making sure the blame goes to the proper place - those hell-bent on killing Terri, as opposed to those who are just as powerless as we are to prevent it.

You basically state that we can pray that "Terri's will to live will triumph, and she will wake enough to eat and drink."

Unfortunately, this is simply not possible, unless we're hoping that she'll get out of bed, walk down to the nearest snack machine and get herself some food. She's not even being allowed the -chance- to swallow food or water - she's not even allowed to have Communion as part of last rites! I find that deeply apalling.

If she were disconnected from the tube, but fed orally and given the chance to swallow it on her own, I'd be a lot less morally outraged at this situation. If she couldn't swallow it, well, then I could at least appreciate on some level the argument that the feeding tube was "extraordinary measures". But the fact that Greer refuses to even allow Terri to be -tested- to see if she can swallow what she is fed on her own is what I find apalling, and what he should be impeached for. She's being denied even ordinary measures, and I find it shocking.

That said, Bush's hands are legally tied. What I'm trying to get people to accept is that it's not Bush that's corrupt and refusing to act - it's the LAWS and the judiciary that are corrupt. I'm trying to get them to focus their anger and their desire to seek change on something productive rather than destructive of the causes they're trying to defend.

Qwinn

[supercat]

Certainly. Bush indeed COULD storm into that hospice and do whatever he wished, and then face the legal consequences of those actions. I have never disputed that Bush -could- simply defy the Court. I have also never stated any opinion other than that he would have the ethical and moral right, even duty, to make such a stand.

I am not familiar with the Florida Constitution, but nothing in the U.S. Constitution declares that the President or other executive officers are unconditionally required to follow judicial rulings without regard for whether they are in word or effect consistent with the Constitution. To be sure, the fact that a court states that the Constitution and statutes indicate something creates an extremely strong presumption of that being the case. Fundamentally, however, a President's first oath is to the Constitution, and he is duty-bound to refuse any judicial orders whose enforcement would violate that oath.

To give a crude example, suppose that the Supreme Court were to, out of the blue, declare that some particular statute means that police officers are compelled to shoot all read-headed males on sight. Should the President obey such an order?

[JulieRNR21]

Jeb became a Catholic when he married his wife Columba.

[Jim Robinson]

Vote out the Democrats!! It's the only way we'll ever see any improvement in the judiciary!

[Neets]

I second that!! On both points.

CC, ping me if anyone else has similiar thoughts/comments.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

If it is a matter of family law, could it have been tried in "family court"? Just wondering.

[CheneyChick]

Will do, Neets....

CC :)

[Avoiding_Sulla]

Vote out the Democrats!! It's the only way we'll ever see any improvement in the judiciary!

Not for lack of trying. But, as you know, we are not only fighting Democrats. Unlike the Dems, we Republicans have to watch our backs too.

At the cost of repeating myself: We can't see where we're going when we don't look where we've been.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

ping 256

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Excellent analogy.

BUMP!

[Jim Robinson]

Well, just don't allow the Democrats to slip in the back door and I'll be fine. If you want improvement in our judiciary (which we all should) then we've got to dump the rats. There is no other way.

[PeyersPatches]

Are judges in Fl (such as Greer) elected? I apologize for my ignorance but which are elected; which are appointed and how to go about changing laws about the "appointed" ones as they seem to have confused that word with "annointed"

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Is there a huge rallying cry to impeach Judge Greer?

[Avoiding_Sulla]

So, how do we cull our "big tent" of our own Rats? They seem to have all the money. Are we doomed to Democrat lite until there's nothing left of our beloved Republic?

[PeyersPatches]

This woamn is having her life taken from her because the Judge thinks she is a vegetable and that she deserves to die. He is using the guardian's word that she said so.. he has no proof of that, if fact he said otherwise years earlier that he needed th malpraictice money torehab her at home. Then less than a yer later started having her feedin gtube removed instead..

---

I think that judge doesn't think she's a "vegetable" either. I think he's just happy to have a lamb to toss on the euthansia bonfire. He didn't go through law school and become a judge by being dumb; on the contrary, I think he has no soul and found a fellow soul-less traveler in Michael Schavio. They are both as aware as the rest of us who viewed Terri's video that he is very much alive and cognizant. Well she was until they pulled that feeding tube anyhow. I will keep trying. If she hasn't given up yet, neither will I. That is my pledge to you, Terri.

[JulieRNR21]

Additional points: The Legislature cannot pass retroactive laws. Any changes made will apply only after the law passes and takes affect. No help for Terri there. But one of us might benefit if changes are made to insure that people in her situation are given the benefit of the doubt toward life, and guardians seeking to halt life support have to meet a greater burden of proof that the person would have chosen death. Urge your legislators to make these changes.

Thank you for a most thoughtful, rational and meaningful post.

[PeyersPatches]

she's not even allowed to have Communion as part of last rites! I find that deeply apalling.

---

When I first read that, I couldn't reply. My hubby had to calm me down. I am Pentacostal/Baptist blend, not Catholic, however I cannot stress how the continuing extending cruelty of what they're doing to her - adding insult to injury (murder actually) - is wretching my guts. This is like watching a nightmare unfolding on tv, only there is a knight on a white horse (Jeb) but he's standing off to the side sweating and wringing his hands, whining that he can't do anything. I don't buy that for a second. Do something, Jeb, right, wrong, indifferent, for goodness sake, just do SOMETHING. The entire country would rally around Jeb if he saved her. His political ear is full of wax.

[Goldwater Girl]

Thank you- I expected to get flamed!

[Qwinn]

"So, how do we cull our "big tent" of our own Rats? They seem to have all the money. Are we doomed to Democrat lite until there's nothing left of our beloved Republic?"

The alternative is Democrat Quagmire, I'm afraid.

I'm as conservative as they come, and I get depressed at the state of social conservatism in the Republican party too, but... the alternative is becoming Canada.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/daifallah200310170944.asp

It's taken their conservatives 10 years to get over their split (brought about by social conservatives who felt their main party had strayed too far from their core beliefs - sound familiar?) and as a result, Canada's government and cultural climate has become liberal to the point of being barely slightly to the right of Marx despite a significant conservative population. They are finally reuniting, and hopefully Canada will come back to it's senses and we'll have an ally again.

We don't want that to happen here. I know RINO's can be annoying, but I can at least be friends with them at least we're on the same planet as far as the initial terms of most debates. The alternative is the Liberals from Venus.

Agitating for a split in the conservative party is counter-productive.

Qwinn