Lincoln’s 'Second American Revolution'

LewRockwell ^ | November 23, 2002 | Thomas J. DiLorenzo

[Non-Sequitur]

Now, now, Walt. Can't you just take the high ground in this, secure in the knowledge that our's was the noble cause? They're stuck believing the south was right. Why kick them when they're down? Be nice, be generous, President Lincoln would have. When you're ready to deliver a zinger just stop and ask yourself WWLD? What Would Lincoln Do? In most cases he would be generous. With a few, a very few, other posters he would smite them with his rightous anger. Be judicious in you use of smite, Walt. That's all I ask.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Lincoln's papers do include one letter to General Meade, I think, where he denies clemency to three repeat deserters who were then shot.

Walt

[Non-Sequitur]

See. Lincoln was judicious in his use of smite, too.

[stainlessbanner]

On the 17th of December, the day after I was inaugurated, I sent a confidential agent to the President of the United States, demanding possession of Fort Sumter

- Gov Pickens

I think it was pretty clear what was going on in 4Q 1860. Many officials, both North and South knew - it's all documented in the South Carolina official records.

You guys can't act like the battle at Fort Sumter just happened out of the blue. It was a long, slow build-up.

[WhiskeyPapa]

There was a thirty year conspiracy. But it was muffed.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

You guys can't act like the battle at Fort Sumter just happened out of the blue. It was a long, slow build-up.

Lincoln made --zero-- campaign promises to retake federal property. None had been taken during the campaign.

Lincoln pretty much kept his own counsel as candidate and president. He was a canny guy.

He didn't do that always, but more often than not, he did.

You --could-- just admit you had a brain cramp and go on.

But N-S is aiming to get that 1,000th post again, and your tap dance will only make it come the sooner.

Walt

[stainlessbanner]

Nice try, Walt. Give it up. I posted his inagural speech where he states he will maintain, repossess, and keep any Federal possessions.

Isn't there another thread for you to destroy?

[WhiskeyPapa]

Nice try, Walt. Give it up. I posted his inagural speech where he states he will maintain, repossess, and keep any Federal possessions.

That wasn't --during-- the campaign. Please try and marshal your thoughts better.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

The --campaign-- of 1860 ended, as I said yesterday, with Lincoln's election on November 6.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

You are just itching to start bumping the thread up to 1,000 posts, aren't you?

Walt

[Non-Sequitur]

Why would Lincoln know what was in a letter Pickens sent to Buchanan?

There is no doubt that South Carolina had begun the rumblings of rebellion shortly after the election but there was nothing new in that, South Carolina had threatened rebellion on other occasions. It wasn't until South Carolina issued her secession declaration that talk of rebellion became rebellion.

I don't think that anyone was surpised that the war started at Sumter. But the onus lies with the Davis regime. Lincoln was maintaining the status quo, holding on the property of the United States. South Carolina had no claim whatsoever to Sumter. Lincoln made no threats concerning Sumter. Shipping traffic into and out of Charleston was never halted or threatened in any way. The safety of Charleston was never in question. Lincoln's stated intention was to land food only unless the resupply effort was opposed. Yet Davis decided that the war would begin there. The question should be why did Davis want the war.

[Non-Sequitur]

My other option is to make nice with my in-laws for the next four days. Thousand posts here we come.

[Ditto]

they were concened about the coming attack from the US army. Before the Confederates fired on Sumter, there were more men under Confederate Arms in Charleston than there were in the entire US Army. Davis, Pickins and the CSA were in no way worried about an attack from the US Army when they fired on Sumter.

[WhiskeyPapa]

LOL!

[stainlessbanner]

I don't think Lincoln was maintaining the status quo. He differed from Buchanan in that he was going to act against the South. Lincoln's cabinet members clearly show that he was changing policy or making his own, however it was different than the previous administration.

The North knew of the threat of secession, there's no denying that. I honestly do not believe things started happening at the point S.C. declared her independence - it was long before that. Any incoming President, as well as most politicians would have been aware of the situation. All states were focused on South Carolina (and Florida).

[WhiskeyPapa]

Don't forget Pickens' letter in this time frame where he says that Washington is "ours for the taking" or words to that effect.

The slave power got all their ducks in a row, and then blew it at the end. It was a lead pipe cinch that the revolution work for them, but they blew it.

It puts me in mind of how British fortunes went before Churchill took over. Before Churchill, there was a lot of vacillation and ennui. The fortunes of the Nazis prospered. After Churchill, that all went away. Same thing as from when Lincoln took over.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

The North knew of the threat of secession, there's no denying that. I honestly do not believe things started happening at the point S.C. declared her independence - it was long before that.

Can't you just come out and say you slipped up and made a statement that wasn't quite square on? Yes, Lincoln WOULD have promised to retake federal property in the campaign of 1860, but he DIDN'T say that, because none had been taken.

Walt

[Non-Sequitur]

If you publicly state that you are going to take something that belongs to me, regardless of whether I want to give it up or not, and I state that no, I am going to hold on to what is mine then where does that make me the aggressor? Sumter was the property of the United States government. South Carolina demanded that it be turned over to them. Lincoln stated his intention to hold on to it. That, by my way of thinking, is maintaining the status quo. So the issue was clear, peace or war. At that point peace was in the hands of the Davis regime and they chose war.

[WhiskeyPapa]

I guess I had heard this before but it slipped my mind. John C. Calhoun signed off on Fort Sumter--- nothing but home state pork. Then he turns around and starts his nullification talk. What a bum.

Walt

[stainlessbanner]

If Lincoln maintained the status quo, how come hostilities did not occur under Buchanan's watch?