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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Could we deligniate some of these foul creatures a bit?
I looked up 'Orc' in the index, and found that they are corrupted Eleves; the Uruk-hai, see to be a project of Saruman's, and somewhere it mentioned that he was cross-breeding to produce them, also in this chapter the Uruk-hai say that Saruman feeds them human flesh. What do other Orcs eat?

Saruman and Sauron were both 'wizards', that chose The Dark Power however, I thought I had seen Sauron mentioned as a Dark Power, but I was looking it up in the Simillarion -(son just gave it to me Fri) and it refers to Melkor as being the Dark Power. So, now I'm getting confused. Did this Melkor have something to do with creating the Rings? or did Sauron, and what is Sauron's connection to Melkor?

While I'm tossing up all these confusing links, I seem to remember something about Saruman 'hatching' orcs from pods....but I can't locate that right now, perhaps my memory just really failing?

277 posted on 08/04/2002 1:47:00 AM PDT by LinnieBeth
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To: LinnieBeth
What I found in Encyclopedia of Arda
Melkor is Ainur and of the same order of the Valar and equal in power to Manwë himself, who was Melkor's brother in the mind of Ilúvatar.

'Melkor' is the true name of the first Dark Lord, and is used for him from his beginning until his theft of the Silmarils. Events of that period are described in this entry, but for events after his return to Middle-earth at the beginning of the First Age, see the entry for Morgoth Bauglir.

Originally a Maia of Aulë's people, Sauron was early corrupted by Melkor and became his most trusted lieutenant. In the Wars of Beleriand, Sauron was the most feared of Morgoth's servants, but after the War of Wrath and the expulsion of the first Dark Lord, Sauron rose to become the greatest enemy of Elves and Men in the Second and Third Ages.

Going back for Orc research....
278 posted on 08/04/2002 5:06:58 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: LinnieBeth
I haven't found anything on what other Orcs eat yet (and I'm not really sure I want to know. :) )
279 posted on 08/04/2002 5:17:53 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: LinnieBeth
The Rings were Sauron's doing... he gave knowledge to the Noldor Elves of Eregion (aka Hollin) and helped them make the Seven and the Nine. The Three were made by the Elves alone, but with knowledge gained from Sauron, so that when he made his One Ring to rule them all, even the Three Elven rings were subject to it.

The Pod-Orcs were from the movie. The books don't say exactly how the Uruk-Hai were created, except that they were likely a cross-breeding between existing Orcs and Men. As to what they eat... < shudder > probably whatever nasty thing they can get their hands on.
280 posted on 08/04/2002 8:32:14 AM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: LinnieBeth
I looked up 'Orc' in the index, and found that they are corrupted Eleves; the Uruk-hai, see to be a project of Saruman's, and somewhere it mentioned that he was cross-breeding to produce them, also in this chapter the Uruk-hai say that Saruman feeds them human flesh. What do other Orcs eat?

As is elsewhere mentioned, Melkor is the orignial name for Morgoth, the Dark Enemy of the World to whom Sauron was a servant.

The Uruk-hai were *not* created by Saruman, but were orignialy more or less normal Orcs whom Saruman lured to his service through promises of Man-flesh to eat and, presumably, other similar enticements. He seems to have spent a lot of time training these Orcs and making them somewhat tougher (if they hadn't already been) than your average Orc, as we see in the current chapter.

Saruman *also* was working on a project involving breeding Orcs and Humans to create 'half-orcs'. The slanty-eyed Southerner in Bree is an example of one of these. I cannot say how successful Saruman was in this endevour, as that the Southerner is the only example I can think of off the top of my head: there doesn't appear to be more than a handful of them. I imagine that most of the...er subected human women died in the project.

As for the Rings: Morgoth was vanquished at the end of the First Age by the Valar and their allies. The Rings were created well into the Second Age. Morgoth is only involved as a sower of bad seeds -- he had no direct hand in any of the events after the First Age.

It is important that you realize that the movie is not the books. It may be similar in most respects, but is certainly not similar in all respects. There is *nothing* in any of the books to suggest that Orcs were hatched, though they do at times show a hive mentality.

Finally, the question of the origin of Orcs is a hotly contested one in some circles. The generally accepted answer is that Orcs are Elves that Morgoth corrupted soon after they first awoke. Others will tell you that Orcs are corrupted *Men*, as evidently Tolkien was at least seriously considering shortly before he died. I believe the former, as the later would require an extensive rewriting of many of the stories of Middle-earth.

Tuor

285 posted on 08/04/2002 4:00:26 PM PDT by Tuor
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