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To: BroJoeK

“Our War of Independence lasted at least six years (1775 to 1781) and cost the lives of around 70,000 Americans of a population only about 3 million. In today’s equivalent terms, that would be over 7 million Americans killed to win our independence.”

Where did you get that data? Most studies I’ve seen have the total colonial deaths at between 25,000 and 26,000, of which only about 8500 - 9500 were killed in battle; the rest died in camp (ca. 10,000, primarily from disease) or in captivity (ca. 8500, from deprivation and disease). Of course, these are estimates, given the scarcity of detailed records. Those studies also suggested that the civilian death numbers would probably have been in line with the civilian death numbers without the war.

“Another key comparison is that we didn’t fight alone — we received major naval and army support from France, Spain, Holland and others. France especially had ‘boots on the ground’ here and suffered thousands of casualties as a result.”

Absolutely correct. It’s disappointing that so many Americans think the colonials fought the British by themselves; we owe a great debt of gratitude to France for its assistance and support (of course, the “French connection” had less to do with any benevolence toward the colonials, and more to France’s desire to damage Britain).


57 posted on 10/10/2023 9:44:17 AM PDT by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule. )
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To: ought-six; BroJoeK; Widget Jr; USA-FRANCE; SunkenCiv

Even if our comparitive losses in the Revolution were only around 2.5 million (extrapolated from 25,000) that is still around 5 times our 1/2 million lost in WW2.ss

France suffered a far greater loss, as the economic weakness coused by their contribution was a serious factor in the subsequent French overthrow of the monarchy and executions of thousands by guillotine (sp?). Hero Laffayete and family were also imprisoned in France and faced death in consequence. French help was not the only cause of their economic problems, the Laki Fissure event in Iceland also affected European prosperity as was noted by Benjamin Franklin who was in Europe during that period.


61 posted on 10/10/2023 10:00:50 AM PDT by gleeaikin ( Question authority!)
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To: ought-six
ought-six: "Where did you get that data?
Most studies I’ve seen have the total colonial deaths at between 25,000 and 26,000, of which only about 8500 - 9500 were killed in battle; the rest died in camp (ca. 10,000, primarily from disease) or in captivity (ca. 8500, from deprivation and disease).
Of course, these are estimates, given the scarcity of detailed records.
Those studies also suggested that the civilian death numbers would probably have been in line with the civilian death numbers without the war."

I'm sure your numbers are correct, and the 70,000 is a maximum estimate which includes other kinds of deaths.
These are from Wikipedia:

    United States:

  1. 6,800 dead in battle
  2. 6,100 wounded
  3. 17,000 disease dead[33]

  4. 25,000 – 70,000 war dead[34]
  5. 130,000 smallpox dead[35]

    France:

  6. 2,112 dead – East Coast[36][s]

    Spain:

  7. 371 dead – W. Florida[38]
  8. 4,000 dead – prisoners[39]

    Native Americans: Unknown

You can see that estimates of US war deaths range from 25,000 to 70,000 with another 130,000 dead from small-pox -- no doubt aggravated by wartime conditions.

Brits, their allies and loyalists suffered circa 25,000 deaths in total.

To realize today's equivalent of these numbers, simply multiply by 100.
So, even 25,000 war deaths then equates to 2.5 million today, orders of magnitude more than we lost in WWII, for example.

ought-six: "Absolutely correct.
It’s disappointing that so many Americans think the colonials fought the British by themselves; we owe a great debt of gratitude to France for its assistance and support (of course, the “French connection” had less to do with any benevolence toward the colonials, and more to France’s desire to damage Britain)."

Maybe, but there were many Frenchmen at the time who admired Americans for our ideals and independence mindedness and who in term were admired by US Ambassadors like young Thomas Jefferson.

The bottom line is that the French king literally lost his head over support for Americans -- the money he spent to support us put his government in bankruptcy, leading to events that culminated in the French Revolution, terror and guillotines for many aristocrats.

So whatever his motives may have been, the French king paid the ultimate price for supporting us.
I think that counts for something.

77 posted on 10/10/2023 9:55:07 PM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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