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How the Mid-Victorians Worked, Ate and Died
International Journal of Environmental Research & Public Health ^ | March 20, 2009 | Paul Clayton & Judith Rowbotham

Posted on 07/24/2021 6:16:46 AM PDT by Qiviut

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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Sure, a healthy diet overcomes tuberculosis, syphilis, smallpox, polio, cancer, malaria, and all sorts of things. No need for medicine, right?


21 posted on 07/24/2021 7:52:39 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Qiviut

“their freedom from degenerative disease”

I’m reminded of “what about out freedom to not be shot?”

This language suggests that freedoms are about to be jeopardized.


22 posted on 07/24/2021 8:09:56 AM PDT by Celerity
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To: marktwain

“…It reads as if they decided what happened, then wrote their narrative to fit….”
*************************************************************
There’s a whole lot of that going on in recent years. And THEY GET AWAY WITH IT because our youngsters are not taught to think critically. The IDIOCRACY lives.


23 posted on 07/24/2021 8:11:02 AM PDT by House Atreides
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To: Qiviut

Kippers (smoked herring) were standard for British breakfasts during the Edwardian and Victorian eras

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/apr/07/food-kippers-smoked-fish-sales-revival

An oily fish high in Omega 3, kippers are quick and easy to cook, whether frozen, “in the bag” or chilled. As a sustainable fish they are on the Marine Conservation Society’s list of fish to eat.

Kippers were the quintessential British breakfast food — also enjoyed for high tea and supper — of the Victorian and Edwardian eras. They sold well until the 1970s when they fell out of favour with the advent of fast food which had greater appeal for younger diners.

Gary Hooper, Tesco fish specialist and president of the National Federation of Fishmongers, said: “Kippers, along with other traditionally popular oily fish such as mackerel and sardines suffered from a culinary prejudice by younger people who considered them old-fashioned and the kind of food eaten by their grandparents.

“Demand dwindled for nearly four decades but a combination of factors such as their competitive price, a move towards healthier eating and also a foodie revival for old heritage favourites has put them firmly back on dinner plates.”


24 posted on 07/24/2021 8:17:05 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: PapaBear3625
Kippers were the quintessential British breakfast food — also enjoyed for high tea and supper —

They gotta have 'em in Texas.

25 posted on 07/24/2021 8:19:29 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Qiviut

They didn’t have industrially processed liquid seed oils like canola, soybean oil, rapeseed oil, and the like. They ate more animal fats. There was no low fat madness. Also less processed foods. Canning in the mid 1800s was a recent invention.


26 posted on 07/24/2021 8:32:10 AM PDT by cpt_dave
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To: SoCal Pubbie

If you say so.


27 posted on 07/24/2021 9:41:13 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (All I know is The I read in the papers.)
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To: Qiviut
Excellent article.

The Victorians died rapidly of infection and/or trauma, whereas we die slowly of degenerative disease.

And a reminder. I had intended to drive the 3/4 mile to the Post Office. I think I will walk.

28 posted on 07/24/2021 10:45:32 AM PDT by Chuckster (Friends don't let friends eat farmed fish)
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To: SoCal Pubbie

“I’m not buying it.”

me neither ... not one second ... are we to believe that people didn’t die in epidemics of bacterial disease when no antibiotics were available or that no one died of appendicitis, or during childbirth, etc., etc,.? ... article is complete nonsense ...


29 posted on 07/24/2021 10:59:20 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: marktwain; SoCal Pubbie
This sounds dubious to me. First of all, “life expectancy at age 5” is a tip off that stats have been cherry picked. A huge number of kids never made it that far.

It reads as if they decided what happened, then wrote their narrative to fit.


The kids that didn't make it that far is the point of that statistic. Ignoring stats from younger kids eliminates infant deaths and such from your stats, giving a better picture of how long many people actually lived. High infant mortality brings your average death age down, and makes it appear that everyone dies at a younger age, when they actually don't.

Lets say that most people who live a life die around 60. If, say, half of kids die as infants, then the average life expectancy statistic is ~30, which for most people would imply a society of no old people, lots of disease or war death, with '50' being considered very old. Not an accurate description of life/death for most of society. Lots of infants dying (for normal causes) can skew those results quite a bit.
30 posted on 07/24/2021 11:05:55 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: Svartalfiar

And did the authors likewise factor out murder, transportation deaths, drug overdoses and other causes of death that either did not exist in the Victorian era or were much more rare? If you’re going to carve out the stats that favor your argument it makes debate a lot easier.


31 posted on 07/24/2021 11:18:05 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

If I say so about what? You might try being a little less vague.


32 posted on 07/24/2021 11:20:18 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Chuckster

They talked about the way people died then and now in the podcast - I had never thought about that before. Thinking back to my grandparents & great-grandparents ... how hard they worked, what they ate, the way they died & this was in America, not UK. World of difference between then and now.

It was a thought provoking article at a minimum.

BTW, I went REAL food 3 years ago, eating like my farm relatives & even better - turned my health around (overweight, pre-T2D, etc.). Feel great, able to be more active not toting around extra weight and I do some heavy work around our place which is much easier than it used to be!

Enjoy your walk! :-)


33 posted on 07/24/2021 11:28:29 AM PDT by Qiviut (Faith is the antidote to fear. Mindset: be a victor, not a victim.)
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To: SoCal Pubbie
How many people died in automobile accidents in 1885? Plane crashes? Electrocutions? Where these causes of death taken out when calculating life expectancy in the modern era?

No many.

But you left out:

How many dies in horse accidents (even today, horse riding is more dangerous than motorcycle riding).

How man died in boating accidents (common form of transportation, no personal flotation devices required.)

How many died in accidents otherwise? No guards on machinery, no safety standards, just personal prudence.

How many died of poison? easy access to poisons, Mercury, Arsenic, used as medicine.

34 posted on 07/24/2021 11:33:51 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries. )
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To: dfwgator

They gotta have ‘em in Texas.


LOL. That was my first thought, too, when I read this.


35 posted on 07/24/2021 11:34:03 AM PDT by iowamomforfreedom (More deplorable than ever - MAGA)
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To: cpt_dave

Agree with all you said. There is some feeling now that the vegetable seed oils could be even more harmful than the sugar/carbs!! I saw something the other day saying the “half life” of the vegetable oils in your body is 4 years. The vegetable oils, rather than animal fats, make for inferior cell membranes which are made of fat. Omega 6 vs Omega 3 ratios are way off - too much Omega 6 by a long shot. It’s interesting topic(s) for sure.


36 posted on 07/24/2021 11:38:00 AM PDT by Qiviut (Faith is the antidote to fear. Mindset: be a victor, not a victim.)
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To: marktwain

Are you really going to argue horse accidents over autos? Boating? How many people in England set foot on a boat back then? I’d wager the vast majority stayed damn close to home their entire lives. And a much higher percentage of people lived in rural areas compared to today.


37 posted on 07/24/2021 11:43:33 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: marktwain

The line that read “… the incidence of degenerative disease was 10% of ours.” is suspect too. Alzheimer’s wasn’t even diagnosed until around 1900.


38 posted on 07/24/2021 11:47:50 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Qiviut
My paternal grandfather was born in 1870.   Queen Victoria had over thirty years still to reign.   Of course, I never knew my grandfather because he died of old age years before I was born.   But, I was raised by a father who was raised by a Victorian age father.   So, I've got that going for me.
39 posted on 07/24/2021 12:05:18 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken )
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To: Qiviut
They had relatively little access to alcohol and tobacco

O-kay.

What a bunch of BS.

40 posted on 07/24/2021 12:16:28 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Lupus pilum mutat, non mentem. (The wolf changes his coat, not his disposition.))
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