Natural Born Citizens and USSC Docket 20-1503

The Post & Email ^ | 16 May 2021 | Joseph DeMaio

[4Zoltan]

His mother could not have been an American citizen at the time of his birth. She could be an American citizen on July 4th, 1776.

If Vaughan was an adult on July 4th, 1776 it wouldn’t matter what his parents were. There would be no way for him to receive American citizenship through his parents.

I would think Jay understood that.

[Ladysforest]

Grandfathered in. It’s a REAL thing.

[4Zoltan]

Grandfathering became real in 1788. This letter was written in 1781.

How exactly does that work?

[Ladysforest]

Well, look at the language of the Constitution. There was a clear distinction between citizen and Natural Born Citizen. There was, regrettably, no clear definition written into the constitution as to the difference between the two. However, as two are mentioned, two there are.

You are welcome to define each, site your sources, just as you should site your source for grandfathering re:American citizenship not beginning until the year 1788.

It is a conversation worth having.

[4Zoltan]

Because the Constitution wasn’t ratified until 1788.

Are there earlier grandfather clauses somewhere?

Jefferson wrote one into the citizenship law for Virginia in 1779.

https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a4_2_1s4.html

[Just mythoughts]

In what state was Lord McCain birthed? (I love that word birthed.. probably the only thing Hillry ever got ‘right’.)

[knarf]

of confusion

No state ... country of Panama.

[ops33]

What about the military? Both my wife and I were born in the US but both of our children were born in Germany when we were stationed there. My daughter was born in the US Army hospital at Landstuhl. But to further complicate matters, my son was born in West Berlin while the city was legally still under Allied occupation. He was born in the US Army hospital in the American sector while I was a member of the US Occupation Forces. At that time, the West German government did not exercise sovereignty over West Berlin. Each Allied power, US, Britain and France, was sovereign over its sector. Both of my children have birth certificates issued by the US State Department that records the birth of a US citizen born abroad. So, are my children Natural Born Citizens or not?

[CDR Kerchner]

Read all of Chapter 19 of Vattel's "Principles of Natural Law", especially Section 217 which applies to the military stationed abroad as part of the armies of the state: https://lonang.com/library/reference/vattel-law-of-nations/vatt-119/

[CDR Kerchner]

Vattel is clear on the matter you present. The U.S. Government and State Department is not. One would assume that members of the military stationed abroad with dependents would have been briefed on the uncertainty of the issue per the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual. See: http://www.kerchner.com/naturalborncitizen/StateDepartment-EligibilityForPresidency-NaturalBornCitizen-HL1 op.jpg The U.S. Supreme Court needs to take on this issue of "natural born Citizen" instead of avoiding it, as Justice Clarence Thomas stated. My position is that Vattel is clear on the issue as he states in section 216 and 217.

[redinIllinois]

.

[Ladysforest]

I wasn’t using the phrase as a legal term of art, but casually.

The word retroactive would have been more precise to the period.

I do tend to use them interchangeably - but I’m not a lawyer, nor a Judge, so I won’t come down too hard on myself.